Was Abraham(p) Jew ? Christian? or a Muslim ?

Abraham(p)

The broken red line shows Prophet Abraham’s (pbuh) route in the light of historical records. He left Ur, in Sumeria, and eventually reached Makkah.

One true God of Abrahim (P) whose religion the Jews , Christians and Muslims claim to follow is saying this

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah’s (which is Islam) and he joined not gods with Allah(God).
Qur’an 3: 67

If you reflect on the above verses of Quran with an open mind you will see the truth behind it , for Prophet Abrahim(p) was neither a Jew or Christian in fact he was the one who completely trusts and bows down to the will of God if you translate this description into Arabic you will get the word Muslim ( meaning the one who has surrendered himself to God) .

Another important thing to note from the above verse of Quran that the Jews have deviated from the path of Prophet Abrahim(p) by killing their very own Prophets send to them by God and the Christians have deviated form the One true Monotheistic religion of Abrahim( p) by becoming Polytheists and making THREE GODS OF ONE TRUE GOD of Abrahim (P) please show me a SINGLE VERSE in the BIBLE which shows Prophet Abrahim(p) praying to GOD in the Name of FATHER , THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST or praying to ONE TRUE GOD IN THREE DIFFERENT FORMS or at least Show PROPHET MOSES TO WHOM GOD GAVE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THESE COMMANDMENTS JESUS (P) HIMSELF FOLLOWED SO DID ALL HIS DISCIPLES , please show me a SINGLE VERSE in the BIBLE which shows Prophet MOSES(p) praying to GOD in the Name of FATHER , THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST , OR AT LEAST SHOW ME THE NAME OF JESUS(P) AND HOLY GHOST IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WHICH WERE MEANT AS GUIDANCE FOR ALL THE 12 TRIBES OF JEWS OR ISRAEL , did God EVER say in the COMMANDMENTS to Jews worship GOD in the name of FATHER , THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST ?

O.K PLEASE AT LEAST SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE DID JESUS (P) EVER SAID I AM THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHIM(P) AND MOSES(P) OR AT LEAST SHOW THAT JESUS (P) SAID THAT THE HOLY GHOST IS THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHIM(P) AND MOSES(P) ?

We call ourselves Muslims ( meaning the one who has surrendered himself to God) because this is the real name given to a person who follows the ONE TRUE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION OF PROPHET ABRAHIM(P) and this was the same name given to Abrahim(p) by GOD not Jews or Christians which are the self made names for followers ONE TRUE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION OF PROPHET ABRAHIM(P) .

In the end I am here as your FRIEND trying to have a reasonable discussion about the ONE TRUE RELIGION OF ABRAHIM (p) AND ONE TRUE GOD HE USED TO WORSHIP ,

I am NOT here to CHALLENGE YOUR BELIEF OR FAITH , I am here for discussion which will teach me something you know and also teach you something

Courtesy

Dr Syed Abdul Raheem

Sufi786

Author

The Only true Religion Debate

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40 Comments

  1. Posted January 23, 2008 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    The true Christians has no three Gods in the God Head. As the Holy Bible imparts, you cannot read that the Holy Ghost is a God, but rather the Father and the Son are God. Please be certain of which Christians denomination you are referring to.
    Even Abraham has known of the New Testament. The New Testament is older than the Old Testament.

    Please visit http://esoriano.wordpress.com for more details.

  2. Posted January 23, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Abraham was probably Jewish, but most of those religions were written after he had died.

  3. Posted January 23, 2008 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Hey, are you certain of your questions? Or are you just stating rhetorical questions but you are really not intending to accept when you are proven wrong?

    Of course how can you read the word Jesus Christ or The Father the son and the holy ghost in the old testament when the Ministry of Angels was the one destined by God to lead the old days.

    The bible says,

    James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    A fool is someone who speaks before he listens.

    Let me just give you some hints that the New Testament was actually older than the Old Testament. Even Jesus Christ is older than Abraham.

    Let us start with Abraham. Has he known Jesus Christ?

    John 8: (NIV)

    12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
    13The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

    14Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

    19Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

    “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

    21Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”

    22This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”

    23But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins.”

    25″Who are you?” they asked.

    “Just what I have been claiming all along,” Jesus replied. 26″I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

    27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

    The Children of Abraham
    31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    33They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

    34Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

    39″Abraham is our father,” they answered.

    “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does.”
    “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.
    42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    48The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
    49″I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

    52At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

    54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    57″You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

    58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    Let us read about Moses. Was he told of Jesus Christ’s manifestation in the flesh?

    Of course the prophecy in the old testament shall be realized, and we are fortunate enough that we are seeing these things come true.

    Acts 3:22
    For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

    St Paul said this as he reflects on what he learned from the old scriptures or prophecy

    Deuteronomy 18:15
    The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.

    Even James explained this:

    James 2: 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

    21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

    23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

    But now let us see what was Jesus Christ does when He was with his father even before the world began. He is the wisdom of God.

    Proverbs 8:

    22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
    before his deeds of old;

    23 I was appointed from eternity,
    from the beginning, before the world began.

    24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
    when there were no springs abounding with water;

    25 before the mountains were settled in place,
    before the hills, I was given birth,

    26 before he made the earth or its fields
    or any of the dust of the world.

    27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
    when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

    28 when he established the clouds above
    and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

    29 when he gave the sea its boundary
    so the waters would not overstep his command,
    and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

    30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
    I was filled with delight day after day,
    rejoicing always in his presence,

    31 rejoicing in his whole world
    and delighting in mankind.

    32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
    blessed are those who keep my ways.

    33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
    do not ignore it.

    34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
    watching daily at my doors,
    waiting at my doorway.

    35 For whoever finds me finds life
    and receives favor from the LORD.

    36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
    all who hate me love death.”

    And why did the wisdom become flesh?

    1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
    5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
    6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    7but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!
    9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

    But the Jew, neither the Muslims did not know the purpose of God. But certainly, God wants all men to be saved. All people who never heard of the gospel and Jesus Christ true teachings, including those Muslims who did not get the chance too, will be given a chance to know Jesus Christ when he comes back again and reign for 1000 years.

    Do not boast of your god, seek him first, as you might have not known who really is.

    James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    But once you get to know the God of Israel, the Living God, The God that never lies, the Father of Jesus Christ, then you will even know how you can thank him and be grateful to his everlasting mercy and kindness.

    For more please visit

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

  4. Posted January 24, 2008 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    I am sorry to say elmantheman, then why not make the OLD testament the New testament and make New testament to be the Old testament ? , that should be the more appropriate term the Christians should be using for their scripture .

    If Christians truly believe in One God and do not say Jesus (p)and Holy Ghost are gods ( which I know is not the case) , then they have become Muslims , thank you , which unfortunately is not the case .

    Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah’s (which is Islam) and he joined not gods with Allah(God).
    Qur’an 3: 67

    If you reflect on the above verses of Quran with an open mind you will see the truth behind it , for Prophet Abrahim(p) was neither a Jew or Christian in fact he was the one who completely trusts and bows down to the will of God if you translate this description into Arabic you will get the word Muslim ( meaning the one who has surrendered himself to God) .
    Another important thing to note from the above verse of Quran that the Jews have deviated from the path of Prophet Abrahim(p) by killing their very own Prophets send to them by God and the Christians have deviated form the One true Monotheistic religion of Abrahim( p) by becoming Polytheists and making THREE GODS OF ONE TRUE GOD of Abrahim (P)

  5. Posted January 24, 2008 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    brbrl I don’t think Abraham was a Jew at all for he was born in Iraq or ancient Babylon , all I can say for sure he was a MUSLIM and followed Islam .

    Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah’s (which is Islam) and he joined not gods with Allah(God).
    Qur’an 3: 67

  6. Posted January 24, 2008 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said “Hey, are you certain of your questions? Or are you just stating rhetorical questions but you are really not intending to accept when you are proven wrong?

    Of course how can you read the word Jesus Christ or The Father the son and the holy ghost in the old testament when the Ministry of Angels was the one destined by God to lead the old days”

    MY REPLY :

    Yes elmantheman that that is exactly what I want to say and you yourself have proven that Jesus(p) and Holy Ghost are not mentioned in the Old testament as being Gods , so why make

    THREE GODS OUT OF ONE TRUE GOD

    Yes elmantheman , I am very certain of my Questions .

  7. Posted January 24, 2008 at 5:39 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    “The bible says,

    James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    A fool is someone who speaks before he listens.”

    MY REPLY :

    Yes I agree with you elmantheman “A fool is someone who speaks before he listens”

    so going by your statement all Christians are fools for they speak calling Jesus as God before they listen to what God and Jesus(p) say

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    elmantheman you said

    “James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. ”

    So according to you and this verse of Bible Christians are worse than devils , for they make THREE GODS OUT OF ONE TRUE GOD

    PEACE

    OPEN YOUR EYES AND MIND TO THE FACTS

    MAY THE ONE TRUE GOD GUIDE YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH AND RELIGION OF ABRAHAM (P)

    Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah’s (which is Islam) and he joined not gods with Allah(God).
    Qur’an 3: 67

  8. Posted January 24, 2008 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians.
    For one, they are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet.

    But the real Christians would not wage war with Muslims. We are infact are just letting people know of what the Holy Bible says. We will not kill or hurt anyone who will say bad things about our God, and even to our Lord Jesus Christ. Our God has designated a time when He shall judged the people according to their works. Our God, our Father, wants all men to be saved, especially to those who believe.

    Jesus said, love your enemy, feed them, give them water to drink. The time will come when Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years. Those who have not heard of Him and God’s gospel will be able to listen for the Devil shall be chained. The time will come when Jesus Christ will be known by everyone, and everyone will bend their knees to Him. After these, Jesus Christ will shall be returned to the Living God, his Father.

    I will not debate on a Muslim’s stand. I will not debate on what the Koran says. I am talking about what the Holy Bible reveals to the true Christians. I say true Christians because there are other religious denominations who call themselves christians but their deeds prove otherwise. They are hypocrites and they do what their father wanted to do, the Devil, they are all liers.

    The Holy Bible of the True Christians tells of Abraham’s experience, when Abraham’s thought was fulfilled when he saw the day of Jesus Christ, and he was glad. Even the Jews was greatly shocked hearing about what Jesus said about himself and his relationship to God, his Father. If the Jews was following the Law, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, then I won’t wonder why the Muslim would prefer not thinking that Abraham is not a Jew. Definitely, if Abraham is a Jew, then all the ideas of this Muslim, like pillars placed on the sand, when shaken, will fall into pieces.

    John 8: (NIV)

    52At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

    54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    57″You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

    58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    Abraham learned of the faith that is in Jesus Christ. To be obedient to God. To be God fearing. To fear God means to follow all his commandments. Certainly, not the Law of MOses, but the Law of Faith that came with Jesus Christ. Abraham’s deed when he accepted to offer his own son Isaac to the Lord. And his deeds prove that he has a faith that is alive. Because faith without deeds is dead.

    Moving forward, Moses comes into the history of the Bible and was given the Old Testament for his people.

    But God allowed that Abraham see first the New Testament, because it is a part of God’s plan that falls into its right place.

    I have so many things that I have learned about Jesus Christ, and about the Living God, The God of Israel. One, I learned that the Father God cannot lie. I learned that the Bible did not refer to the Holy Ghost/Spirit as a God. I learned that God, whose name is Father, is greater than Jesus Christ. They are both God. But when you ask the Father, He doesn’t know any God. This is because, for one, The Father is greater than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ affirmed this and he confirmed what was written by the prophets that he is the begotten son of the Father.

    The Father gave a promise and it will surely happen because He is a God that cannot lie. Even Jesus Christ testifies of this, who remained obedient even to his death, has seen the world even before the Father made it. Jesus Christ is the Father’s witness, because they are together in that earth where they live. They live on that earth before God created the heavens, even before the angels, even before Adam, even before the Muslims. Please, read this again where the Wisdom has revealed of himself, the wisdom is Jesus Christ before even the world began: Proverbs 8:22-26.

    I am not saying lies, but rather I am saying of what is written in the Holy Bible.

    I have so much to say, and it is all in the Holy Bible. Ask our Presiding Minister, Bro Eli, the bible shall answer.

    Please visit

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

  9. Posted January 24, 2008 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians.
    For one, they (the Muslims) are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet.

    But the real Christianswould not wage war with Muslims. We are infact are just letting people know of what the Holy Bible says. We will not kill or hurt anyone who will say bad things about our God, and even to our Lord Jesus Christ. Our God has designated a time when He shall judged the people according to their works. Our God, our Father, wants all men to be saved, especially to those who believe.

    Jesus said, love your enemy, feed them, give them water to drink. The time will come when Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years. Those who have not heard of Him and God’s gospel will be able to listen for the Devil shall be chained. The time will come when Jesus Christ will be known by everyone, and everyone will bend their knees to Him. After these, Jesus Christ will shall be returned to the Living God, his Father.

    I will not debate on a Muslim’s stand. I will not debate on what the Koran says. I am talking about what the Holy Bible reveals to the true Christians. I say true Christians because there are other religious denominations who call themselves christians but their deeds prove otherwise. They are hypocrites and they do what their father wanted to do, the Devil, they are all liars.

    The Holy Bible of the True Christians tells of Abraham’s experience, when Abraham’s thought was fulfilled when he saw the day of Jesus Christ, and he was glad. Even the Jews was greatly shocked hearing about what Jesus said about himself and his relationship to God, his Father. If the Jews was following the Law, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, then I won’t wonder why the Muslim would prefer not thinking that Abraham is not a Jew. Definitely, if Abraham is a Jew, then all the ideas of this Muslim, like pillars placed on the sand, when shaken, will fall into pieces.

    John 8: (NIV)

    52At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

    54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    57″You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

    58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    Abraham learned of the faith that is in Jesus Christ. To be obedient to God. To be God fearing. To fear God means to follow all his commandments. Certainly, not the Law of Moses, but the Law of Faith that came with Jesus Christ. Abraham’s deed when he accepted to offer his own son Isaac to the Lord. And his deeds prove that he has a faith that is alive. Because faith without deeds is dead. (James 2:20-26)

    Moving forward, Moses comes into the history of the Bible and was given the Old Testament for his people.

    (Let us read about Moses. Was he told of Jesus Christ’s manifestation in the flesh? Of course, the reason why Moses told his brothers about this event that will take place in the future.

    Of course the prophecy in the old testament shall be realized, and we are fortunate enough that we are seeing these things come true.

    Acts 3:22
    For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

    St Paul said this as he reflects on what he learned from the old scriptures or prophecy:

    Deuteronomy 18:15
    The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.)

    But God allowed that Abraham see first the New Testament, because it is a part of God’s plan that falls into its right place.

    I have so many things that I have learned about Jesus Christ, and about the Living God, The God of Israel. One, I learned that the Father God cannot lie. I learned that the Bible did not refer to the Holy Ghost/Spirit as a God. I learned that God, whose name is Father, is greater than Jesus Christ. They are both God. But when you ask the Father, He doesn’t know any God. This is because, for one, The Father is greater than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ affirmed this and he confirmed what was written by the prophets that he is the begotten son of the Father.

    The Father gave a promise and it will surely happen because He is a God that cannot lie. Even Jesus Christ testifies of this, who remained obedient even to his death, has seen the world even before the Father made it. Jesus Christ is the Father’s witness, because they are together in that earth where they live. They live on that earth before God created the heavens, even before the angels, even before Adam, even before the Muslims. Please, read this again where the Wisdom has revealed of himself, the wisdom is Jesus Christ before even the world began: Proverbs 8:22-26.

    I am not saying lies, but rather I am saying of what is written in the Holy Bible.

    I have so much to say, and it is all in the Holy Bible. Ask our Presiding Minister, Bro Eli, the bible shall answer.

    Please visit

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

  10. Posted January 24, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    “I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians.
    For one, they are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet.”

    MY REPLY :

    Elmantheman NO we Muslims do not need your Scriptures Bible to prove the existence of Prophet Muhammad (s) because Prophet Muhammad (s) is an well know historical figure from Arabia and we don’t need to add anything else , for we have with us the last and final Holy Book of God The Quran which is unchanged by the way since 1400 hundred years , Unlike Bible which is full of Human wirings and corruption mixed with the true Message of Lord .

    The main reason I am Quoting the verses of Bible is for the benefit of the Christians and Jews for they may understand the true Message and Religion of Lord from their own books and accept the last and final message of God The Quran and believe in the last and final Messenger of God Prophet Muhammad(s) .

    Peace

  11. Posted January 24, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    But the real Christianswould not wage war with Muslims. We are in fact are just letting people know of what the Holy Bible says. We will not kill or hurt anyone who will say bad things about our God, and even to our Lord Jesus Christ. Our God has designated a time when He shall judged the people according to their works. Our God, our Father, wants all men to be saved, especially to those who believe.

    Jesus said, love your enemy, feed them, give them water to drink. The time will come when Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years. Those who have not heard of Him and God’s gospel will be able to listen for the Devil shall be chained. The time will come when Jesus Christ will be known by everyone, and everyone will bend their knees to Him. After these, Jesus Christ will shall be returned to the Living God, his Father.

    MY REPLY :

    I am sorry to say elmantheman , the Christian history is filled with innocent blood of both Jews and Muslims , Just remember the never ending crusades and the present crusade going on in Iraq where already a Million plus innocent civilians have died , Just remember the Holocaust where Millions of Innocent Jews were killed by your great peace loving Christians , so when Christians claim that their religion teaches peace and tolerance that seems to be a big joke .

    HISTORICALLY CHRISTIANS HAVE BEEN NOTORIOUS TO HAVE NEVER FOLLOWED THE PREACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST

    WHEN JESUS SAID

    Jesus said, love your enemy, feed them, give them water to drink.

    The Christians made and continue to make record braking vilonce on billions of innocent souls .

    Jesus said

    Mar 12:29 and Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    But look what Christians did they made THREE GODS out of the ONE TRUE LORD.

    Yes Jesus (p) will return we Muslims also belive in this , but he will not be a Christian for he never was a Christian for her nver worshiped CHRIST but he worshiped the one true Lord

    Jon 20:17 I ascend unto my father and your father, and to my God and your God.

    Matt 27:46 My God My God why hast thou forsaken me?

    Luke 6:12 One day Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray and spent the night praying to God.

    Hebrews 5:7 During Jesus days on earth, he offered prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him.

    The fact is Jesus was a humbel servant of God and a great Messenger which means in ARABIC Muslim = the one who totally surrenders to God

    So when Prophet Jesus (p) will return he will surely make the JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS TO BEND ON THEIR KNEES for having lied in his name to the world by makinng THREE gods out of One True God and attempted to Kill him respectively .

    Jesus said

    Mar 12:29 and Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    Yes Prophet Jesus (p) will return and make the entire Humanity enter Islam the ONLY TRUE UNCORRUPTED RELIGION of God and make Christians repeat

    Mar 12:29 and Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    AND THIS IS WHAT JESUS (P) WILL SAY TO SUCH CHRISTIAN LIARS

    Matthew 7:22 – 23 Bible (New International Version)

    22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

    23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

  12. Posted January 24, 2008 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    I will not debate on a Muslim’s stand. I will not debate on what the Koran says. I am talking about what the Holy Bible reveals to the true Christians. I say true Christians because there are other religious denominations who call themselves christians but their deeds prove otherwise. They are hypocrites and they do what their father wanted to do, the Devil, they are all liars.

    The Holy Bible of the True Christians tells of Abraham’s experience, when Abraham’s thought was fulfilled when he saw the day of Jesus Christ, and he was glad. Even the Jews was greatly shocked hearing about what Jesus said about himself and his relationship to God, his Father. If the Jews was following the Law, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, then I won’t wonder why the Muslim would prefer not thinking that Abraham is not a Jew. Definitely, if Abraham is a Jew, then all the ideas of this Muslim, like pillars placed on the sand, when shaken, will fall into pieces.

    John 8: (NIV)

    52At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

    54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    57″You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

    58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    Abraham learned of the faith that is in Jesus Christ. To be obedient to God. To be God fearing. To fear God means to follow all his commandments. Certainly, not the Law of Moses, but the Law of Faith that came with Jesus Christ. Abraham’s deed when he accepted to offer his own son Isaac to the Lord. And his deeds prove that he has a faith that is alive. Because faith without deeds is dead. (James 2:20-26)

    MY REPLY :

    ADAM WAS BEFORE JESUS SO THE DEBATE ENDS HERE GOING BY YOUR LOGIC

    AND REGARDING ABRAHAM THERE IS NO QUESTION OF HIM BEING A JEW FOR HE WAS BORN IN IRAQ ( BABYLON ) THE LAND OF THE ARABS .

    PEACE

  13. Posted January 24, 2008 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    Moving forward, Moses comes into the history of the Bible and was given the Old Testament for his people.

    (Let us read about Moses. Was he told of Jesus Christ’s manifestation in the flesh? Of course, the reason why Moses told his brothers about this event that will take place in the future.

    Of course the prophecy in the old testament shall be realized, and we are fortunate enough that we are seeing these things come true.

    Acts 3:22
    For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

    St Paul said this as he reflects on what he learned from the old scriptures or prophecy:

    Deuteronomy 18:15
    The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.)

    But God allowed that Abraham see first the New Testament, because it is a part of God’s plan that falls into its right place.

    MY REPLY :

    Now lets cool down here elmantheman , a dont put your own words Into the Mouth of Prophet Moses(P)

    Acts 3:22
    For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

    “And the Lord said onto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

    TELL ME HOW ON EARTH YOU COME TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE PROPHET LIKE UNTO MOSES IS JESUS? NICE TRY ANYWAY

    IN WHAT WAY IS PROPHET JESUS(S) SIMILAR TO PROPHET MOSES (S)?

    Area of Comparison Moses and Jesus

    Birth
    Moses Usual , JESUS UNUSUAL

    Family Life
    Moses Married, children Jesus No marriage, no children

    Death
    Moses Usual , Jesus Unusual

    Encounter with Enemies
    Moses Hot pursuit /Battles , Jesus No similar encounter
    Moses Moral/Physical Victory , Jesus Moral Victory only

    Writing down of New Law

    Moses In his Lifetime TEN COMMANDMENTS, Jesus no new laws but followed the laws of Moses

    Acceptance of Leadership by his people

    Moses Accepted , Jesus Rejected (by most Israelites)

    NO JESUS CAN IN NO WAY BE SIMILAR TO MOSES AND HENCE THE PROPHECY OF A PROPHET LIKE UNTO MOSES DOES NOT FIT JESUS AT ALL .

    PEACE

  14. Posted January 24, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    I have so many things that I have learned about Jesus Christ, and about the Living God, The God of Israel. One, I learned that the Father God cannot lie. I learned that the Bible did not refer to the Holy Ghost/Spirit as a God. I learned that God, whose name is Father, is greater than Jesus Christ. They are both God. But when you ask the Father, He doesn’t know any God. This is because, for one, The Father is greater than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ affirmed this and he confirmed what was written by the prophets that he is the begotten son of the Father.

    The Father gave a promise and it will surely happen because He is a God that cannot lie. Even Jesus Christ testifies of this, who remained obedient even to his death, has seen the world even before the Father made it. Jesus Christ is the Father’s witness, because they are together in that earth where they live. They live on that earth before God created the heavens, even before the angels, even before Adam, even before the Muslims. Please, read this again where the Wisdom has revealed of himself, the wisdom is Jesus Christ before even the world began: Proverbs 8:22-26.

    I am not saying lies, but rather I am saying of what is written in the Holy Bible.

    I have so much to say, and it is all in the Holy Bible. Ask our Presiding Minister, Bro Eli, the bible shall answer.

    Please visit

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

    MY REPLY :
    I am sorry to say elmantheman

    what you are saying looks like a nice story about a stronger God and his weaker Begotten Son who also happens to be the weaker God , and this son himself confess that he is the begotten son of God according to you .

    By the way elmantheman , I think your first language is English so you should now what is the meaning of “BEGOTTEN ”

    begotten – (of offspring) generated by procreation; “naturally begotten child”

    The less I say about this it is better .

    And about LIE , I will agree that God and Prophet Jesus will never lie , but do not agree that Bible cannot lie , because I have said earlier the true Bible has become corrupted with human wittings , lies and errors mixed with the true message of God , so there are a lot of Places where bible is filled with Human corruption and lies

    for example the Bible says at many places that some Prophets committed ADULTERY AND EVEN INCEST , but we Muslims know that Prophets can never do such shameless things and moreover we have the Last and Final Message or Holy Book of God with us the Quran which will remain unchanged and uncorrupted till the day of Judgment for it is the Last and Final message to mankind, The Quran confirms that the Prophets are Innocent of such shameless sins and lies attributed to them in in the bible by humans who were deceived by the devils for adding such nonsense in the Bible against the Prophets of Lord and thus corrupting the true Message of the Lord with filth and Pornographic writings .

    The Lord does not lie
    The Ten Commandments

    Exodus 20 : 2-7

    2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    The Prophets Do not Lie
    Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    But the misguided Christians deceived by the devil lie

    When they say JESUS IS ALSO A GOD OR BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

    And Jesus will say unto such who lie in his name

    Matthew 7:15 – 23 Bible (New International Version)

    15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

    17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

    18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

    19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

    23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    PEACE

    MAY THE ONE TRUE LORD GUIDE YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH

    AMEEN

  15. Posted January 26, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29 (KJV)
    The above verse says that Jesus was talking about Israel. He said that it was mentioned to Israel that God is one Lord. It is Israel who is concerned in that commandment. Next, what do you think “is” and “one Lord” means? Does it means that God is a Lord too? If Sufi786 is insinuating that God is the only Lord, then, it should be the one written on that verse. But it is not. It just says about God as, God is one Lord, He is a Lord too but you cannot compare him to anyone. To the God of Israel, there is no other Lords, in fact He is a Lord of Lords. Even Jesus Christ is a Lord to but not higher than his Father.

    Deuteronomy 10:17
    For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

    Exodus 20:
    The Ten Commandments
    1 And God spoke all these words:

    2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

    3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

    Deuteronomy 6:4
    Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

    The clearness of thoughts that is in Jesus Christ just prove of how he was sent by God, his Father. Jesus Christ mentioned that he and Israel has one Lord, it is God, the God of Israel, The Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    1 Corinthians 8:5
    For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),

    6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    Psalm 82

    6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’

    We are taught to define words from the bible, using the bible too. Now, the definition of God and Lord are clearly stated in the scriptures, depending on who calls on God, which people is concerned calling God, the only God, etc. God the Father is the origin of all things see the verse above. While Jesus Christ is our Lord because of what? It is because through Jesus Christ we live, through him all things came.

    John 10:

    25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

    31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

    33″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?

    35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—

    36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

    39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

    As far as Christians are concerned, we are very strict on a question being asked because we give strict answers. Have you ever experience that you cannot ask something about something you have no idea of? Most likely, our questions are wrong because we do not have enough idea of the subject. Like this one, Are there many gods? Surely there are many gods as stated from the above verses. Who is that God that says, there is no god besides me? Also, is your God greater than my God? I am sure I know my God and God the Father has no equal, He is the head of Jesus Christ.

    Exodus 8:10
    “Tomorrow,” Pharaoh said. Moses replied, “It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God.

    See how comparisson was being imparted from the above verse? Since the Pharaoh has a lot of gods, Moses told him that there is no one like the LORD our God. What if people says there is one god?

    James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
    Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

    19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    There was a comparisson being made here. Almost everybody believes there is a God, but they do not follow what God says to them. If Christians believe in God, then the Holy Bible speaks of what to do and what not to do which every Christians should obey.

    A Christian who has faith but does not obey whatsoever God commanded to them through Jesus Christ, that belief of God is nothing. That faith or belief is in vain. Even demons believe that there is a God but they do not follow God’s righteousness. These demons are dead in the sight of God. Show me your faith through deeds. Show me your God through deeds.

    James 2:

    20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

    22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

    23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

    26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

    As a person, who believes in a god, without the qualities of that god he knew cannot be seen in his deeds, his belief of his god is in vain, more so if you believe that God is Merciful and Just. If you believ that God is Love. But do you practice charity, are you merciful to people?

    I believe in my God, the one that can never lie. Do I lie about the gospel? Everyone is a liar, excluding God. If God cannot lie, and He is above everything. I rest in that hope that He will not break His promise.

    Titus 1:2
    a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

    Hebrews 6:

    13When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14saying, “I will surely bless you and give you many descendants.” 15And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.

    16Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath.

    18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.

    19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

    Sufi786, we as Christians as the bible defines, are preparing for the return of Jesus Christ, more so, we are prepared to face false prophets. Our faith bears fruits as we hold steadfast to the gospel of God. Charity is one of the fruit of the Spirit. Understanding is a promise to those inside the Church of God.

    Matthew 7:15-23 (New International Version)

    15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

    17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    You are using the verses of the Holy Bible against the Christians. But it is okay from now since you have just learned of the Christians that I am talking about. But the more you use the verse against us, the more clearer it will appear that there are Christians who rightly divide the word of Truth, that is the Members, Church of God International, as being lead by our Presiding Minister, Brother Eliseo F. Soriano.

    I was commenting in the blog of Sufi786, entitled THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION DEBATE and the post is entitled, Was Abraham(p) Jew ? Christian? or a Muslim ?

    As expected, Sufi786 is determined to express his belief in Allah as his god and Muhammed as his prophet and his basis the Koran or Quran. while he mentions of the Holy Bible when he points something out of his own scripture’s explanation.

    But it is interesting to speak to him because even in the Holy Bible, it says that a fool also believes that there is no God. But, some men who believes that there is a god in their own knowlege and are also called a fool. Thus, there is a need to realize that there is a God and who is this God.

    But then again, since Sufi786 might have been limited to see due to his religion, and also might have not met a True Christian as defined in the scriptures in the last verse of Matthew 28, he might have thought that Christians are nothing. He might have seen the Christian based on his human definition and the hypocrites as one. He was not able to distinguish who really are the True Christians as defined in Matthew 28:

    19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Even I being a member in the Members Church of God International who cleaved in the Church of God as preached by St Paul, believes in a supreme being, a GOD.

    Allow me to continue on what I learned from Bro Eli Soriano as he reads to us The Holy Bible with the divine guidance of God. Below was my comment to Sufi786′s post:

    The Holy Bible imparts the Love of God, as God is love. Salvation is for those God gives mercy to; is for those who believe in God, who believes that there is a God, etc. Salvation is also for those who has not known God but surely, indirectly, believes that there is shown by their deeds that is caused by their instinct, guilt, conscience and or thoughts.

    Romans 2:
    11For God does not show favoritism.

    12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

    13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

    14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

    16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    There are those who calls themselves “Christians” but whatever is a good deed and holy found in the Holy Scriputers, these they do not follow, they are hypocrites.

    Matthew 23:15
    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

    There are those who mock the Holy Bible without knowing what really teachings, commandments – for whom, to whom, these are given to, for them to follow.

    2 Peter 2:12
    But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

    Jude 1:10
    Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

    And there are things a True Christian understand. Those commandments, warnings, things to come, prophecies are written for those concerned to it. They were given the grace to understand. They were called by God and lead to Jesus Christ’s Faith. God will direct those he predestined to Jesus Christ.

    Romans 2:4
    Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

    John 6: 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    What about the Law of Moses?

    Deuteronomy 4:

    44 This is the law Moses set before the Israelites. 45 These are the stipulations, decrees and laws Moses gave them when they came out of Egypt

    35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other. 36 From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, and you heard his words from out of the fire. 37 Because he loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength, 38 to drive out before you nations greater and stronger than you and to bring you into their land to give it to you for your inheritance, as it is today.

    But Moses, though he gave a warning, being a witness himself about his generation, on how these acquired the ways of the Egyptians, whose gods are idols are man made, within this Chapter, you will read how he gave his fellow brothers a cure or information how they can return to God should this happens. Being a friend of God, Moses

    Deuteronomy 4 (NIV):

    25 After you have had children and grandchildren and have lived in the land a long time—if you then become corrupt and make any kind of idol, doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God and provoking him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. You will not live there long but will certainly be destroyed. 27 The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and only a few of you will survive among the nations to which the LORD will drive you. 28 There you will worship man-made gods of wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.

    29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress and all these things have happened to you, then in later days you will return to the LORD your God and obey him. 31 For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your forefathers, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Moses, being a friend of God will never leave his people unaware of their future.

    Exodus 33:11
    The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend…

    Moses will not left things unsaid when he has a fair chance and knowledge of how sometimes his people thinks about God. Moses even has offered himself just that God will spare his brothers life.

    Let us read about Moses. Was he told of Jesus Christ’s manifestation in the flesh? Of course the prophecy in the old testament shall be realized, and we are fortunate enough that we are seeing these things come true.

    Acts 3:22
    For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

    Now why is it one of the reasons why God sent Jesus Christ to the Israelites, Jews, as the prophet that He promised?

    Exodus 20

    18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance

    19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

    St Paul said this as he reflects on what he learned from the old scriptures or prophecy and when he received visions and revelations from the Lord and when he was caught up to paradise.

    Deuteronomy 18:15
    The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.

    1 Timothy2:
    3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

    As you can see, if there is a prophecy such as this, we will see the events as it unfold. Then Sufi786, acting as a philospher, in a way insinuates that I am wrong by comparing Jesus Christ and Moses. Sufi then compared Jesus Christ and Moses literally in a way showing that they are not the same. But did I say that Jesus Christ was all along Moses was talking about when he metioned of the prophet? It is written by St Paul in the Scriptures, not me! What was being mentioned by the scripture is what the people shall do when this prophet appears, they should listen to him! Jesus Christ has the commandments of God, and he will talk about it.

    When God sends a messenger, He wants the concerned people who will receive the message to listen very carefully and if it is a commanded, must be followed accordingly because God’s words are full of wisdom.

    Exodus 23:

    21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him. 22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

    Numbers 12:6
    he said, “Listen to my words: “When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams.

    Nehemiah 9:17
    They refused to listen and failed to remember the miracles you performed among them. They became stiff-necked and in their rebellion appointed a leader in order to return to their slavery. But you are a forgiving God, gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love. Therefore you did not desert them,

    Nehemiah 9:29
    “You warned them to return to your law, but they became arrogant and disobeyed your commands. They sinned against your ordinances, by which a man will live if he obeys them. Stubbornly they turned their backs on you, became stiff-necked and refused to listen.

    Sufi786, see how important it is to listen? If only the Israelites listened carefully of what Moses foreseen about their fate in the future if they become disobedient again. They did not listen carefully how they can be saved through Jesus Christ. We are not debating whether they keep the advice of Moses during the conversation, the important thought here is that these statements of Moses was written and the Jews, the Muslims, the Christians have accessed to it, (even from the internet for those who can afford to use it). The Holy Bible is given free, freely thee receive, freely give.

    After listening, we can also learn how we can distinguish who speaks in behalf of God through listening.

    Deuteronomy 13:
    1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

    6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

    These verse describe how you can be compared to the Jews or anyone who is conformed to the intelligence and thinking of these Jews. They are wrong in putting Jesus Christ to death, and those who does not believe in Jesus Christ. Because some did not carefully listen to the message or the prophecy. Jesus never said that he was preaching of another god, but rather he highlighted the only One Good God, his Father, the Living God, the God of Israel.

    But Sufi786, let us hear Moses again of how to listen to Jesus Christ and what makes him the prophet mentioned by God.

    Deuteronomy 18 (NIV)

    17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.

    20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

    21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

    That is normally how people ask or question. The bible contains your question, therefore, it contains the answers.

    John 14 (NIV)

    15″If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

    22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

    23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching.

    My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

    These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    25″All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    28″You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’

    If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

    29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
    “Come now; let us leave.

    God wants to people to listen to his messenger, especially, he wants all men to listen to his Son.

    Luke 3 (NIV)

    21When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

    Sufi786, who do you think will see these things? Those who God has given the oppurtunity, right? Also those who were able to read the prophecy and seen too how it unfolds, right? Now as the True Christians, we read these events as they were told and how they happened. Of course, it was explained by St Paul, as he was the one who in the spirit was given the explanation and answer to the mysteries about Jesus Christ and the Old Testament and the things about Jesus Christ.

    2 Corinthians 12 (NIV):
    1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.

    2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.

    I have been pointing out from the start, since I have commented in your post that the Koran (Quran) is not to debate with by Christians, whoever wrote it surely has his own plan for Muslims and those who will believe it.

    But, The Holy Bible was compiled in such a way that the True Christians( those who has heard the undefiled gospel, obvious in their deeds and faith, not hypocrites), will be prepared when Jesus Christ returns. We believe that it was written and compiled with a divine guidance. Even the books contained in it says or refers one to the other that testifies the validity of each books.

    Let us say Peter for example, he talked about the writing of Paul. The Gospels, says about the prophecy of Isaiah regarding Jesus Christ, etc.

    Having said that, the Holy Bible contained a detailed plan for the Christians, as well as for the Muslims and the like, in matters of Salvation.

    1 Timothy2:
    3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

    But if two philosopher will simply deny each others’ belief and faith because they cannot read “the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost” or a “word” that they wanted to see not written in the Old Testament – verbatim, word for word, we might as well forget about faith and divine guidance. Faith is a manifestation that you heard the gospel and you are waiting for the unseen things to come.

    Romans 10
    1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

    5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.” 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7″or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

    13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

    16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
    “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.” 19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
    “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
    I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.” 20And Isaiah boldly says,
    “I was found by those who did not seek me;
    I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”

    21But concerning Israel he says,
    “All day long I have held out my hands
    to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

    Sufi786, If you will teach us of what is contain in the Holy Bible. It would be better for you to study it with us as we are Christians who have received the grace to understand what is written in the scripture for salvation through Jesus Christ. We understand the parables Jesus Christ spoken. When Jesus said, “to you…”, he was referring to the Church of God. Please read the verse below.

    Matthew 13:

    10The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

    11He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

    12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
    “Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
    ” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
    15For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
    and turn, and I would heal them.’

    16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

    17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

    Now Sufi786, on what you wrote here in your comments, it is as if you are trying to show that you have a knowledge on the books, chapters, and verses of the Holy Book. But I say, you do not have a divine grasp of those writings. You will ask why have I said this. No, it is not me who said so, it is the Holy Bible that has a prophecy for the Christians that defines who this people who shall not understand. None of the wicked shall understand.

    Daniel 12:10
    Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

    But then again it says none of the wicked will understand, but those wicked who does not continue to be wicked will therefore come into understanding when he walks on God’s ways. What more those who practice holiness who base their works on the bible will further come to the knowledge of truth that is in the Holy Bible.

    But what will happen to those who has not known the Holy Bible, who has no one to read the bible for them? Let me reiterate Sufi786, Muslims or none Muslims who have not heard of the Gospel, who have not even known of the Holy Bible, who have not access to the Holy Bible (even to the internet), many of these are in Africa, and the Muslim regions, might be saved too. Our God is a merciful and just. Our God never lies. Our God wants all men to be saved, especially those who believe.

    I want to point out that the Gosped should be heard. And hearing this through Bro Eli Soriano, reading to us the undefiled Gospel of God which will make you see Christians better as part of the plan of God, and as human beings in this world, where you are living too.

    Sufi786, those who do not believe in a god has a place to hear the gospel too. And since you believe in a god, you are part of the plan worth saving too!

    The Holy Bible just like the Holy Quran(which you call it) contains prophecy that took place already, events that will surely happen, the sign of times now show. Other prophecies in the Holy Bible meant for this generation is now being realized, soon to be experience by those people living near the end times. The Holy Bible says about how earth is a circle; how a child should be circumsized on his proper age which medicine has proven that during this times the child has the natural anti bodies to fight the infection(specifics can be found in the internet).

    Does the Quran says this?:

    Chapter 2, Verses 23 & 24: “And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to our servant, Then produce a Chapter like thereunto; And call your witnesses or helpers besides Allah, If you are true. But if you cannot, and surely you cannot, Then fear the fire Whose fuel is men and stones, Which is prepared for those who reject.”

    I do not want to debate on what the Koran/Quran says. What I want you to know is that the Holy Bible is for Christians, and to those who will believe in Jesus Christ. I have given you the verse that says “how to have faith in Jesus Christ that will later on be developed on having faith to the God who sent him” at Romans 10:13-21

    Jesus Christ said and showed, what was commanded to him by his Father in a way impartas that God does not condemn people by killing them with stones or through man. The time has come for people to have faith like that of the Faith of Abraham, obedience to God with the help of Jesus Christ.

    John 8 (NIV):

    1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

    6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11″No one, sir,” she said.
    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
    12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
    13The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

    14Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

    19Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”
    “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

    21Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”

    22This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”
    23But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”

    25″Who are you?” they asked.
    “Just what I have been claiming all along,” Jesus replied. 26″I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

    27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

    The Children of Abraham
    31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    33They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

    34Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

    39″Abraham is our father,” they answered.
    “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does.”
    “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

    42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    48The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?” 49″I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

    52At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death.

    53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets.

    Who do you think you are?”

    54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    57″You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
    58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    I have highlighted the questions, claims, thoughts, etc, of the Jews. You might want to put yourself in their shoes and read the answers of Jesus Christ. In that way, you will know that even Moses, Jesus Christ, more so, God, have answers for your question found in the Holy Bible. You need to hear the Gospel first so that sooner or later, by the grace of God, you will come into understanding and the knowledge of truth.

    Romans 9:8
    In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

    Romans 11:21
    For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

    Romans 2:
    11For God does not show favoritism.

    12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,

    15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,

    their consciences also bearing witness,

    nd their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God;

    18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;

    19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—

    21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

    You who preach against stealing, do you steal?

    22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

    23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
    25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

    28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

    Even you Sufi786, in your post, the prophecy of the Holy Bible is continously being unfold to us, Christians.

    2 Corinthians 3:15
    Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

    Try to read some thought of Bro Eli Soriano as he reads the Holy Bible to us. I hope you learn who is the God that we believe in, the God of Israel who later on Jesus Christ has made known to us through His deeds and obedience.

    John 10:27
    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

    Luke 11:31
    The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.

    John 6 (NIV)

    42They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

    43″Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.

    44″No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

    45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

    46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    Luke 10:16
    “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

    I was blind about who God is, but now I can see more clearly, seeing the unseen. Soon, we will be like Jesus Christ for we shall see Him as He is.

    John 9:

    13They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. 14Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath. 15Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”

    16Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
    But others asked, “How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?” So they were divided.

    17Finally they turned again to the blind man, “What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened.”

    The man replied, “He is a prophet.”

    18The Jews still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man’s parents. 19″Is this your son?” they asked. “Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”

    20″We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. 21But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.”

    22His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for already the Jews had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ would be put out of the synagogue. 23That was why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

    24A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”

    25He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”

    26Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”

    27He answered,

    “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”

    28Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!

    29We know that God spoke to Moses,

    but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”

    30The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.

    31We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.

    32Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.

    33If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”

    34To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.

    Spiritual Blindness
    35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

    36″Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”

    37Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”

    38Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

    39Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

    40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”

    41Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

    Matthew 15:10
    Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand.

    Matthew 17:

    1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

    4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

    5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I

    love; with him I am well pleased.

    Listen to him!”

    6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

    “Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.”- James 4:10

    Galatians 6:6Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

    You can visit:

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

  16. Posted January 26, 2008 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29 (KJV)
    The above verse says that Jesus was talking about Israel. He said that it was mentioned to Israel that God is one Lord. It is Israel who is concerned in that commandment. Next, what do you think “is” and “one Lord” means? Does it means that God is a Lord too? If Sufi786 is insinuating that God is the only Lord, then, it should be the one written on that verse. But it is not. It just says about God as, God is one Lord, He is a Lord too but you cannot compare him to anyone. To the God of Israel, there is no other Lords, in fact He is a Lord of Lords. Even Jesus Christ is a Lord to but not higher than his Father.

    Deuteronomy 10:17
    For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

    Exodus 20:
    The Ten Commandments
    1 And God spoke all these words:

    2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

    3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

    Deuteronomy 6:4
    Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

    The clearness of thoughts that is in Jesus Christ just prove of how he was sent by God, his Father. Jesus Christ mentioned that he and Israel has one Lord, it is God, the God of Israel, The Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    MY REPLY :

    elmantheman Then why don’t you follow the example of Jesus (p)

    and declare with clearness of thought that YOUR GOD IS ONE GOD , OR YOUR LORD IS ONE LORD ONLY , I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT gods AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT lords NEITHER IS JESUS TALKING ABOUT lord BUT HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE ONLY ONE “LORD OUR GOD “.

    And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

    Let me make thinks simpler for you elmantheman do you believe Jesus is a GOD but not god ?

    Please answer my question if you are a true Christian then we will proceed with this Debate further .

  17. Posted January 26, 2008 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    I want you to first acknowledge that not all Christians that you know are true Christians.

    Now, hear what I say, this one differentiates us from them.

    We believe that Jesus Christ and the Father are Gods based in the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible did not mention of the Holy Spirit being a God. Thus, your claim that we have 3 Gods is only your claim because you learned this from Christians who believes the same.

    So, I will talk of things that separates my belief to the other “christian denominations.”

    When you agree that there are Christian denominations that differs in belief and the way that they use the bible and follow it, then, I think there is a chance for us to continue this talk.

    Actually, if you can look back at my previous comments you can see the answers. Please see Philippians 2:1-13 because I forgot to write the origin of that scripture but I did not forget to paste it above. It says about Jesus Christ why he was mentioned in the Scriptures as a God and a man.

    1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.

    3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

    4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

    5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

    6Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

    7but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

    8And being found in appearance as a man,

    he humbled himself

    and became obedient to death—

    even death on a cross!

    9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,

    10that at the name of Jesus every knee should

    bow,

    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

    So, what do you say? Do you believe that there are a lot of Christian denominations, and my group are totally different from them though we are called Christians too? By answering this, people reading these comments can identify what kind of Christian and belief I have. By affirming to what I said, people will know that there really are Christians who adhere, believe and obey to the undefiled Gospel of God.

    Afterwhich, you can ask me, do Christians really has three Gods? Do you think Jesus Christ is a God. Do you think you are committing sin if you believe Jesus Christ is a God? Is a God different to a God? Does one Lord mean there is none else? Does one Lord means, that He is also a Lord? Does Jesus Christ only said the things God wants him to say? Does Jesus Christ teached another God, aside from his Father? Did Jesus Christ preached another Father, or he clarified what kind of a Father is the God of Israel?

    I hope we can continue our conversation with the grace of God.

  18. Posted January 26, 2008 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    Correct me if I am wrong, since you impart that you know Quran. You said,

    I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians. For one, they are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet. Some Muslims believe this according to Dr. Jamal Badawi’s pamphlet titled, “Muhammad in the Bible.”

    Sufi786 may I correct you when you said,

    “If Christians truly believe in One God and do not say Jesus (p)and Holy Ghost are gods ( which I know is not the case) , then they have become Muslims , thank you , which unfortunately is not the case .”

    I did not say that Jesus is not a god. The true Christians has no three Gods in the God Head.

    As the Holy Bible imparts, you cannot read that the Holy Ghost is a God, but rather the Father and the Son are God. Please be certain of which Christians denomination you are referring to.

    So, since I will not debate on Muslim’s belief, would you rather ask if you have questions about Christianity?

    And so I say also that Bro Eli Soriano said he has no debate with the Muslims as they use the Koran and not the Bible and so there is no common reference to speak of.

  19. Posted January 26, 2008 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    Correct me if I am wrong, since you impart that you know Quran.

    I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians. For one, they are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet. Some Muslims believe this according to Dr. Jamal Badawi’s pamphlet titled, “Muhammad in the Bible.”

    Sufi786 may I correct you when you said,

    “If Christians truly believe in One God and do not say Jesus (p)and Holy Ghost are gods ( which I know is not the case) , then they have become Muslims , thank you , which unfortunately is not the case .”

    I did not say that Jesus is not a god. The true Christians has no three Gods in the God Head.

    As the Holy Bible imparts, you cannot read that the Holy Ghost is a God, but rather the Father and the Son are God. Please be certain of which Christians denomination you are referring to.

    So, since I will not debate on Muslim’s belief, would you rather ask if you have questions about Christianity?

    And so I say also that Bro Eli Soriano said he has no debate with the Muslims as they use the Koran and not the Bible and so there is no common reference to speak of.

  20. Posted January 27, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    want you to first acknowledge that not all Christians that you know are true Christians.

    Now, hear what I say, this one differentiates us from them.

    We believe that Jesus Christ and the Father are Gods based in the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible did not mention of the Holy Spirit being a God. Thus, your claim that we have 3 Gods is only your claim because you learned this from Christians who believes the same.

    So, I will talk of things that separates my belief to the other “christian denominations.”

    When you agree that there are Christian denominations that differs in belief and the way that they use the bible and follow it, then, I think there is a chance for us to continue this talk.

    Actually, if you can look back at my previous comments you can see the answers. Please see Philippians 2:1-13 because I forgot to write the origin of that scripture but I did not forget to paste it above. It says about Jesus Christ why he was mentioned in the Scriptures as a God and a man.

    MY REPLY :

    elmantheman can you please explain how does making TWO gods out of ONE TRUE GOD makes you a better than Christians who make THREE gods out of ONE TRUE GOD ?

    You are in the same hopeless position

    “James 2: 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. ”

    which is even worse than the position of the Demons for at least they Demons believe in ONLY ONE GOD , but you believe in reality they are TWO GODS BOTH = ONE GOD !!!???

    Can you explain me in simple Math how ?

    1(GOD)FATHER + 1 (GOD) SON = 1 ( GOD) ? BUT NOT 2 (GOD’S)

    And can you please explain me how Jesus is both man and God

    man + GOD = GOD ? BUT NOT GODMAN ( MESSENGER OR PROPHET)

    Peace .

  21. Posted January 27, 2008 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

    6Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

    7but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

    MY REPLY :

    elmantheman I ask the same simple thing from you

    “Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus”

    which is unfortunatley not the in the case of you or others so called Christians the followers of Christ

    “Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,”

    Yes why dont you elmantheman
    or the other so called Christians dont grasp the true message of Jesus Christ

    THE ONLY REASON JESUS DID NOT CLAIM EQUALITY WITH GOD IS BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GOD– WHY DONT YOU CHRISTIANS GRASP THAT SIMPLE THING ? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ?

    Do you mean to say Jesus was LYING or Just pretending when he said

    John 14:28 My father is greater than I.

    No , I don’t think so, IF JESUS WAS GOD HE WOULD HAVE SIMPLY SAID “I AM GOD LORD OF YOU ALL” AND “MY FATHER AND ME ARE EQUAL IN POWER OR MIGHT ”

    Jesus has no reason to play the game of hide and seek with his disciples and followers if he is simply a GOD , “JESUS WOULD SAY I AM GOD WORSHIP ME ” BESIDE ME YOU HAVE NO OTHER GOD ”

    “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

    “I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God beside Me” (Isaiah 45:5)

    “That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other” (Isaiah 45:5)

    “I am the First and I am the Last, and beside Me there is no God… Is there a God beside Me? There is no God: I know not any” (Isaiah 44 6 8)

    “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; Isaiah 45:5

    That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, Isaiah 45:6

    “I am God, and there is none else . . there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things not yet done” (Isaiah 46:9)

    Note in ISAIAH 46:9 GOD SAYS “there is none like Me”

    NONE MEANS NONE IN SIMPLE ENGLISH AND THAT INCLUDES JESUS CHRIST WHY CANT YOU ELMANTHEMAN OR YOUR FELLOW CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH ? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ?

    “… seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.” (Matthew 13:13)

    Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

    Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    And elmantheman can you please explain why the ONE TRUE GOD WHO NEVER WORSHIPED HIMSELF BUT ASKED ALL OTHERS TO WORSHIP HIM IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF BIBLE WOULD BECOME JESUS OR A SERVANT TO WORSHIP HIMSELF ?

    NO WE WORSHIP ONE TRUE GOD NOT A SERVANT UNTO A GOD

    THE MOMENT GOD BECOMES JESUS HE IS NO MORE A GOD BUT A MORTAL WHO EATS , SLEEPS AND DIES ON THE CROSS

    SO PLEASE USE YOUR COMMON SENSE AND BE HONEST GOD CANNOT BECOME A MAN AND STILL BE GOD — WHICH NEVER HAPPENED ANY WAY EXCEPT IN THE FANTASTIC DELUSIONS OF MISLED CHRISTIANS

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES AND YOUR HEART AND GUIDE YOU

    PEACE

  22. Posted January 27, 2008 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    8And being found in appearance as a man,

    he humbled himself

    and became obedient to death—

    even death on a cross!

    MY REPLY :

    Being found in the appearance of man ?

    Is God found as being a Human ?

    and God becomes obideant to Himself as a servant – well it seems God as a servant did not become obideant to Himself

    Jesus (p) said

    “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

    Matthew 27:45-46

    Neither did this servant God was approving of his God plans to crucify him and make him a scapegoat for the sins of entire humanity

    Hebrews 5:7 During Jesus days on earth, he offered prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him

    PEACE , JESUS NEVER SAID THAT HE IS A GOD IN THE FORM OF A MAN AND SENT TO WORSHIP HIMSELF , PLEASE ELMANTHEMAN THINK WHERE ARE GOING BY INVENTING SUCH FANTASY ——- NO WHERE .

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES AND YOUR HEART AND GUIDE YOU

    PEACE

  23. Posted January 27, 2008 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,

    MY REPLY :

    YES GOD DID EXALT THE NAME OF JESUS FOR HE WAS A GREAT PROPHET OF GOD ALL MUSLIMS AGREE ON THIS POINT , BUT NOT BECAUSE HE WAS A GOD WHO HUMBLED HIMSELF BEFORE HIMSELF — PLEASE .

    I MEAN YOU DON’T HAVE TO BECOME GOD SO THAT HE WILL EXALT ONLY GOD , GOD WILL EXALT ALL HIS GOOD SERVANTS , MORE SO HIS PROPHETS .

    PLEASE USE YOUR COMMON SENSE AND DON’T GET CONFUSED AND MAKE UP FANTASIES IN THE NAME OF GOD , WHICH IS A GRAVE SIN , IF YOU BUT REALIZE .

  24. Posted January 27, 2008 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    10that at the name of Jesus every knee should

    bow,

    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

    So, what do you say? Do you believe that there are a lot of Christian denominations, and my group are totally different from them though we are called Christians too? By answering this, people reading these comments can identify what kind of Christian and belief I have. By affirming to what I said, people will know that there really are Christians who adhere, believe and obey to the undefiled Gospel of God.

    Afterwhich, you can ask me, do Christians really has three Gods? Do you think Jesus Christ is a God. Do you think you are committing sin if you believe Jesus Christ is a God? Is a God different to a God? Does one Lord mean there is none else? Does one Lord means, that He is also a Lord? Does Jesus Christ only said the things God wants him to say? Does Jesus Christ teached another God, aside from his Father? Did Jesus Christ preached another Father, or he clarified what kind of a Father is the God of Israel?

    I hope we can continue our conversation with the grace of God.

    MY REPLY :

    elmantheman you said

    10that at the name of Jesus every knee should

    bow,

    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    Firstly I would advice you elmantheman to study your Bible properly then rush to speak

    “I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. Isaiah 45:23

    Isaiah 45:22-24

    022: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    023: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    024: Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

    NO NOT TO THE NAME OF JESUS (P)SHALL EVERY KNEE BOW AND EVERY TONGUE DECLARE THE GLORY BUT IT IS TO THE NAME OF GOD THE ONE TRUE LORD OF ALL SHALL EVERY KNEE BOW AND EVERY TONGUE DECLARE THE GLORY — AMEEN – IF ANYBODY WHO SPEAKS CONTRADICTORY TO THIS IS A LIAR – MAY GOD GIVE SUCH LIAR TRULY WHAT HE DESERVES .

    Isaiah45:24: Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

    Yes I also hope we can continue our conversation with the grace of God

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES AND YOUR HEART AND GUIDE YOU

    PEACE

  25. Posted January 27, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for accepting that I belong to the Christians who are totally different from the christians you believe are killers and have created their own religious denominations, they did not cleave to the vine, to the Church of God as preached by St Paul.

    Christians are called as such as far as what their deeds show. They follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not kill anybody, so do the true Christians inside the Church of God as preached by St Paul. Jesus Christ instead has been up to his death. The Holy Bible proves that Jesus Christ did not in any manner taught any other God than that of the Father. Jesus Christ acknowledge who God calls god. Jesus Christ said only the things his Father told him, nothing more, nothing less.

    If God begets a son, Jesus Christ, don’t you think it is you who is not deciding whether he will be a God or not? Don’t you think it is you now who takes God authority to make another true God?

    But before you answer that, what I want you now to clarify is your claim of the ONE TRUE GOD. Correct me if I am wrong to understand that it seems your belief that the God of Israel from the Holy Bible is the same as your Allah in Quran? This is what your posts and comments seem to insinuate.

  26. Posted January 27, 2008 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    Correct me if I am wrong, since you impart that you know Quran. You said,

    I learned that the advent of Muhammad was none existent without the Holy Bible of the Christians. For one, they are referring to the Holy Bible to prove Muhammad being their prophet. Some Muslims believe this according to Dr. Jamal Badawi’s pamphlet titled, “Muhammad in the Bible.”

    Sufi786 may I correct you when you said,

    “If Christians truly believe in One God and do not say Jesus (p)and Holy Ghost are gods ( which I know is not the case) , then they have become Muslims , thank you , which unfortunately is not the case .”

    I did not say that Jesus is not a god. The true Christians has no three Gods in the God Head.

    As the Holy Bible imparts, you cannot read that the Holy Ghost is a God, but rather the Father and the Son are God. Please be certain of which Christians denomination you are referring to.

    So, since I will not debate on Muslim’s belief, would you rather ask if you have questions about Christianity?

    And so I say also that Bro Eli Soriano said he has no debate with the Muslims as they use the Koran and not the Bible and so there is no common reference to speak of.

    MY RELY:

    elmantheman let me make it clear to you Prophet Muhammad(saw) is an Prophet of God whether you believe in him or not that is not the issue here , PROPHET MUHAMMAD(S) came with the Holy Quran the last and final message of the one true Lord of all , so he does not need any other holy book to prove his existence , because God declares him a Prophet in the Quran – Peace

    Again when you say Jesus is also God then you are going against the preachings of Christ Himself – hope you will mature one day to know this – NO where is the Bible Jesus (p) says that he is God and people should worship him along with the God in heaven – peace

    It is good to see that you have taken one step furtherer than the other Christians and have acknowledged the truth that the Holy Ghost is not a God .

    I will ask your Bro Eli Soriano just one Question does he believe in the ONE TRUE GOD OF ALL HUMANS OR DOES HE JUST BELIEVE IN A GOD OF CHRISTIANS ONLY ? OR IS HIS GOD ONLY A CHRISTIAN GOD ?

    He will have no choice but to declare that he worships the God of all Mankind , then I will say since I also believe in that same God then he has no right to refuse the debate with me if in truth he worships the one TRUE LORD OF ALL MANKIND and will not run away from the debate if he is indeed the follower of the ONE TRUE GOD .

    Regarding Bible the Muslims believe it was the message of God for the guidance of Jews , but the jews and later Christians corrupted the message of God with their own ideas and bad things so the Bible is no more the true word of God 100% , it has some parts which are from God but some are from Humans who where misguided by the devil to add their own wrong beliefs in the Bible , that is why Allah or God they are same by the way , sent Prophet Muhammad (s) the last and final Messenger of God to the entire humanity with the promise that the last and the Final Book of God the Holy Quran will remain unchanged and uncorrupted till the day of judgment since it is the last and final message of God to the entire Humanity and no other holy book will come after it so God has vowed to protect it from human corruption as the Quran will be the Guide to all Mankind till the day of Judgment comes .

    Peace

    May God guide you

  27. Posted January 27, 2008 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    But before you answer that, what I want you now to clarify is your claim of the ONE TRUE GOD. Correct me if I am wrong to understand that it seems your belief that the God of Israel from the Holy Bible is the same as your Allah in Quran? This is what your posts and comments seem to insinuate.

    MY REPLY :

    YES ALLAH = ARABIC = GOD = ENGLISH

    YES THERE IS NO GOD BUT THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ALL

    THE GOD OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS IS THE GOD OF MUSLIMS 100 %

  28. Posted January 27, 2008 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    elmantheman said

    If God begets a son, Jesus Christ, don’t you think it is you who is not deciding whether he will be a God or not? Don’t you think it is you now who takes God authority to make another true God?

    MY REPLY :

    elmantheman Do you have any idea what are talking about !!! ???

    begotten – Definition
    (of offspring) generated by Procreation; “naturally begotten child”

    Procreation- Defination
    Procreation is a mechanism by which two living beings, a male and a female, create a third living being that is different from both the father and the mother.

    What remains difference remains between an Christian who says God has begotten a son through procreation
    and a pagan who says God has sex , wifes and children ?

    And you blame me for defending the purity of God as an act of arrogance against the supposed wish of the Pure Lord of Abraham(p) and Jesus (p) to beget a son ?

    The least I say about this matter the better it is for the GLORY OF GOD – PEACE.

    Do you know why the Christians have fallen so low and Insist of calling Jesus (p) as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD and not just the Son of God ?

    Answer : it is because there are SONS of God by Dozens in the Bible , so the Christians wanted to get an exclusive title for JESUS (P) as the BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD and not just SON OF GOD , even at the cost of shamelessly Insulting their own God by ascribing the act of begetting to Him .

    Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”

    Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.”

    GENESIS 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (NKJV)

    But it seems the Christians have failed even in this conspiracy not to say of the means adopted to make Jesus the EXCLUSIVE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

    John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

    THE ABOVE IS THE CONSPIRACY OF CHRISTIANS, WHICH FAILED MISERABLY WHEN PROPHET DAVID (P) ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE OTHER BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD , SO THE EXCLUSIVITY OF THE ” ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ” FOR JESUS WAS JUST A PLAIN LIE INVENTED BY CHRISTIANS WHO WHERE DECEIVED BY THE SATAN TO WRITE THE ” ONLY BEGOTTEN TITLE FOR JESUS (P) OR THE WHOLE OF JHON 3:16

    Psalm 2:7 “….Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

    PEACE

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR HEART AND YOUR MIND AND GUIDE YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH

    AMEEN

  29. Posted January 28, 2008 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Alright, since you believe that Allah in Quran and The God of Israel are one and the same, do you agree that the God of Israel of the Holy Bible is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

  30. Posted February 13, 2008 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Elemantheman said

    Alright, since you believe that Allah in Quran and The God of Israel are one and the same, do you agree that the God of Israel of the Holy Bible is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

    MY REPLY:

    YES

  31. Posted February 16, 2008 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Alright, may I ask, which among the books in the Holy Bible you believe in and the Muslims believe in as written with God’s divine intervention?

  32. Posted February 17, 2008 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Elemantheman saidAlright, may I ask, which among the books in the Holy Bible you believe in and the Muslims believe in as written with God’s divine intervention?

    MY REPLY:

    We Muslims belive the present Bible is a corrupt form of the original Bible , which was propufely corrupted by JEWS AND CHRISTIANS TO DISTORT THE MESSAGE OF GOD THEY ARE MANY FACTS PONTING TO THE AUTHOR OF MOST PARTS OF BIBLE BEING HUMANS NOT GOD , WE BELIEVE IN ONLY THAT PARTS OF BIBLE WICH COREEALTE WITH THE UNCORRUPTED LAST AND FINAL BOOK OF GOD THE HOLY QURAN FOR EXAMPLE

    Isaiah 45:22-24

    022: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    023: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    024: Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

    AND REJECT THE PARTS OF BIBLE MAKING GOD A MAN MAKING THE PURE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION OF ABRAHAM AS AN POLYTHEISTIC PAGAN IDOL WORSHIPING RELIGION

    John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

    AND WE REJECT THE HUMAN WRITTEN PORNOGRAPHY IN THE BIBLE FALSELY ATTRIBUTING TO GOD AND PROPHETS, WHICH GOD AND PROPHETS WILL NEVER EVER WRITE , NO NOT EVEN IN THEIR WILDEST OF DREAMS , LEAVE ALONE IN A HOLY BOOK OF GOD

    Kill everything that “breathes” from humans and animals!

    Deuteronomy 20:16
    However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

    It is certainly the Bible’s principle and foundation to kill all humans and animals from the enemy’s side. If one wouldn’t call that terrorism, war crimes and mass-murdering, then what else should they call it?

    Suckling infants were executed by the tens of thousands:

    1 Samuel 15:2-4
    2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
    3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

    A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge:

    Psalm 137:8-9
    8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
    9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!

    I find it to be absolutely ridiculous that the bible feeds us all kinds of lies and contradictions about “love your enemy”, and yet, we see mass slaughter of suckling infants and innocent boys, girls, unarmed men, women (old and young), and innocent domestic farm animals by the tens of thousands! It is clear that the inconsistent man-altered, man-corrupted and morally corrupt bible is nothing but a false book, and can not be a Divine and Perfect Holy Book!

    I challenge any Jew or Christian to produce ONE, JUST ONE Noble Verse from the Muslims’ Noble Quran that condones killing of innocent children, women or even hostile enemy men who drop their weapons before Muslims (surrender).

    Further more, Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:

    “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)”

    Yet, we see mass slaughters and even rape of 3-year old girls as seen in the verses below in the man-altered, man-fabricated and man-corrupted bible.

    Based on this Noble Verse, I can safely conclude, as a Muslim, that the slaughtering stories of innocent people in the corrupted bible were nothing but man-made lies and laws that were put in the Mouth of Allah Almighty:

    “Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., the Bible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)”

    HONSETLY Elemantheman I ASK YOU DO YOU STILL CONSIDER THAT OUR GOD IS LIKE THIS ? AND DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IN ITS PRESENT FORM IS 100% WORD OF GOD BUT NOT CORRUPTED ? BY HUMAN DEVILS ? AND BY REAL DEVILS ? IF THIS IS THE BOOK YOU WANT TO FOLLOW THEN YOU ARE WELCOME THAT IS YOUR OWN UNFORTUNATE CHOICE , BUT DONT TELL ME GOD CAN ODER SUCH RAPE ,MURDER AND PLUNDER , NO THAT IS NOT MY GOD , IF YOUR GOD IS LIKE THAT , I CANT HELP BUT PITY AT YOUR GOD AND HIS FOLLOWERS

    “They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man……..Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:7,17-18)”

    A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge:

    Psalm 137:8-9
    8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
    9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!

    P.S :

    THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS PURE , BUT FOLLOWERS OF SOME RELIGION TRY TO PROJECT HIM AS IMPURE , BUT THEY WILL NEVER SUCCEED IN THE END

    “Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., the Bible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
    (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)”

    AMEEN

    PEACE

  33. Posted February 18, 2008 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    So, going back to my question, which of the “books” in the Holy Bible do you consider inspired by God? Which of the books in the Holy Bible do Muslims consider made through God’s intervention?

  34. Posted February 21, 2008 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Elemantheman said

    So, going back to my question, which of the “books” in the Holy Bible do you consider inspired by God? Which of the books in the Holy Bible do Muslims consider made through God’s intervention?

    MY REPLY

    A PATIENT HEARING

    Dr. Graham Scroggie in his aforementioned book, pleads, on page 29. for the Bible:- “AND LET US BE PERFECTLY FAIR AS WE PURSUE THE SUBJECT (Is the Bible the Word of God?).

    BEARING IN MIND THAT WE ARE TO HEAR WHAT THE BIBLE HAS TO SAY ABOUT ITSELF. IN A COURT OF LAW WE ASSUME THAT A WITNESS WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH, AND MUST ACCEPT WHAT HE SAYS UNLESS WE HAVE GOOD GROUNDS FOR SUSPECTING HIM, OR CAN PROVE HIM A LIAR. SURELY THE BIBLE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, AND SHOULD RECEIVE A LIKE PATIENT HEARING.

    ” The plea is fair and reasonable.

    We will do exactly as he asks and let the Bible speak for itself. In the first five books of the Bible — Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy — there are more than 700 statements which prove not only that God is NOT the Author of these books, but that EVEN Moses himself had no hand in them.

    Open these books at random and you will see: • “And the Lord said unto him. Away, get thee down . . .”
    • “And Moses said unto the Lord, the people cannot come. . .”

    • “And the Lord said unto Moses, Go on before the people . . .”

    • “And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying . . .”

    • “And the Lord said unto Moses, Get down, charge the . . .”

    It is manifest and apparent that these are NEITHER the Words of God NOR of Moses. They indicate the voice of a third person writing from hearsay. MOSES WRITES HIS OWN OBITUARY?

    Could Moses had been a contributor to his own obituary before his demise? Did the Jews write their own obituaries? “So Moses . . . DIED . . . And he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses) … he was 120 years old when he DIED … And there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses …” (Deut. 34:5-10). We will analyze the rest of the Old Testament presently from other angles.

    WHY “ACCORDING TO?”

    What about the so-called New Testament? 1 Why does every Gospel begin with the introduction — ACCORDING TO … ACCORDING TO … (See below). Why “according to?” Because not a single one of the vaunted four thousand copies extant carries its author’s autograph! Hence the supposition “according to!” Even the internal evidence proves that Matthew was not the author of the first Gospel which bears his name.

    “And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (JESUS) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (JESUS) saith unto HIM (MATTHEW), follow ME (JESUS) And HE (MATTHEW) arose, and followed HIM (JESUS).”

    (Matthew 9:9)

    1. The “so-called,” because nowhere does the “New Testament” calls itself the New Testament, and nowhere the Old Testament calls itself the Old Testament. And also the word “Bible” is unknown within the pages of the Bible. God forgot to give a title to “HIS” books!

    Without any stretch of the imagination, one can see that the “He’s” and the “Him’s” of the above narration do not refer to Jesus or Matthew as its author, but some third person writing what he saw and heard — a hearsay account. If we cannot even attribute this “book of dreams” (as the first Gospel is also described) to the disciple Matthew, how can we accept it as the Word of God?

    ST. MATHEW 9

    Mathew Called

    9. And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he
    saw a man named Mathew, sitting at the receipt
    of custom: and he saith unto him, follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

    “HE” AND “HIM”
    NOT MATHEW!

    “HE” AND “HIM”
    NOT JOHN!

    ST. JOHN 19

    35. And he that saw it bare record,
    and his record is true: and he knoweth
    that he saith true, that ye might believe.
    ST. JOHN 21
    24. This is the disciple which testifieth
    of these things, and wrote these things:
    and we know that his testimony is true.

    The Conclusion

    25. And there are also many other things
    which Jesus did, the which, if they should
    be written every one, I suppose that even
    the world itself could not contain the books
    that should be written. Amen.

    We are not alone in this discovery that Matthew did not write the “Gospel according to St. Matthew” and that it was written by some anonymous hand. J. B. Phillips concurs with us in our findings. He is the paid servant of the Anglican Church, a prebendary of the Chichester Cathedral, England. He would have no reason to lie or betray to the detriment of the official view of his Church! Refer to his introduction to the “Gospel of St. Matthew” (reproduced here below). Phillips has this to say about its authorship.

    “EARLY TRADITION ASCRIBED THIS GOSPEL TO THE APOSTLE MATTHEW, BUT SCHOLARS NOWADAYS ALMOST ALL REJECT THIS VIEW.” In other words, St. Matthew did not write the Gospel which bears his name. This is the finding of Christian scholars of the highest eminence — not of Hindus, Muslims and Jews who may be accused of bias. Let our Anglican friend continue: “THE AUTHOR, WHOM WE STILL CAN CONVENIENTLY CALL MATTHEW” “Conveniently” because otherwise everytime we made a reference to “Matthew” we would have to say — “THE FIRST BOOK OF THE NEW TESTAMENT” Chapter so and so, verse so and so. And again and again “The first book . . .” etc. Therefore, according to J. B. Phillips it is convenient that we give the book some name. So why not “Matthew?” Suppose its as good a name as any other! Phillips continues: “THE AUTHOR HAS PLAINLY DRAWN ON THE MYSTERIOUS ‘Q’ WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN A COLLECTION OF ORAL TRADITIONS.” What is this “mysterious ‘Q’?” “Q” is short for the German word “quella” which means “sources.” There is supposed to be another document — a common source — to which our present Matthew, Mark and Luke had access. All these three authors, whoever they were, had a common eye on the material at hand. They were writing as if looking through “one” eye. And because they saw eye to eye, the first three “Gospels” came to be known as the Synoptic Gospels.

    WHOLESALE CRIBBING

    But what about that “inspiration” business? The Anglican prebendary has hit the nail on the head. He is, more than anyone else, entitled to do so. A paid servant of the Church, an orthodox evangelical Christian, a Bible scholar of repute, having direct access to the “original” Greek manuscripts, let HIM spell it out for us. (Notice how gently he lets the cat out of the bag): “HE (Matthew) HAS USED MARK’S GOSPEL FREELY” which in the language of the school-teacher — “has been copying WHOLESALE from Mark!” Yet the Christians call this wholesale plagiarism the Word of God?

    Does it not make you wonder that an eye-witness and an ear-witness to the ministry of Jesus, which the disciple Matthew was supposed to be, instead of writing his own first hand impressions of the ministry of “his Lord” would go and steal from the writings of a youth (Mark), who was a ten year old lad when Jesus upbraided his nation? Why would an eye-witness and ear-witness copy from a fellow who himself was writing from hearsay? The disciple Matthew would not do any such silly thing. For an anonymous document has been imposed on the fair name of Matthew.

    PLAGIARISM OR LITERARY KIDNAPPING

    Plagiarism means literary theft. Someone copies ad verbatim (word for word) from another’s writing and palms it off as his own, is known as plagiarism. This is a common trait amongst the 40 or so anonymous authors of the books of the Bible. The Christians boast about a supposedly common cord amongst the writers of the 66 Protestant booklets and the writers of the 73 Roman Catholic booklets called the “Holy Bible.” Some common cord there is, for Matthew and Luke, or whoever they were, had plagiarised 85% word for word from Mark! God Almighty did not dictate the same wordings to the synoptists (one-eyed). The Christians themselves admit this, because they do not believe in a verbal inspiration, as the Muslims do about the Holy Qur’an. 1

    This 85% plagiarism of Matthew and Luke pales into insignificance compared to the literary kidnapping of the authors of the Old Testament where a hundred percent stealing occurs in the so-called Book of God. Christian scholars of the calibre of Bishop Kenneth Cragg euphemistically calls this stealing, “reproduction”2 and take pride in it.

    1. See “AL-QURAN — The Miracles of Miracles” (coming soon)

    2. See beginning of chapter one for the full quotation.

    PERVERTED STANDARDS

    Dr. Scroggie (referred to earlier on) most enthusiastically quotes in his book Scroggie (referred to earlier on) most enthusiastically quotes in his book1 a Dr. Joseph Parker for his unique eulogy of the Bible:

    “WHAT A BOOK IS THE BIBLE IN THE MATTER OF VARIETY OF CONTENTS! . . . WHOLE PAGES ARE TAKEN UP WITH OBSCURE NAMES, AND MORE IS TOLD OF A GENEALOGY THAN OF THE DAY OF JUDGMENT. STORIES ARE HALF TOLD, AND THE NIGHT FALLS BEFORE WE CAN TELL WHERE VICTORY LAY. WHERE IS THERE ANYTHING” (in the Religious Literature of the world) “TO CORRESPOND WITH THIS?” A beautiful necklace of words and phrases undoubtedly! It is much ado about nothing, and rank blasphemy against God Almighty for authorising such an embarrassing hotch potch. Yet the Christians gloat over the very defects of their book, like Romeo over the “mole” on Juliet’s lip!

    1. “Is the Bible the Word of God?” by the Moody Press. by the Moody Press.

    NOTHING LESS THAN 100%

    To demonstrate the degree of plagiarism practised by the “inspired” Bible writers, I asked my audience during a symposium at the University of Cape Town conducted between myself and Professor Cumpsty the Head of the Department of Theology on the subject “Is the Bible God’s Word?” to open their Bibles.

    Some Christians are very fond of carrying their Bibles under their arms when religious discussions or debates take place. They seem to be utterly helpless without this book. At my suggestion a number of the audience began ruffling the pages. I asked them to open chapter 37 in the “Book of Isaiah.” When the audience was ready, I asked them to compare my “Isaiah 37″ with their “Isaiah 37″ while I read, to see whether they were identical. I began, readingly slowly. Verses 1, 2, 4,10, 15, and so on, until the end of the chapter. I kept on asking after every verse if what I had been reading, was identical with the verses in their Bibles. Again and again they chorused — “Yeh!”, “Yeh!”. At the end of the chapter with the Bible still open in my hands at the place from which I had been reading, I made the Chairman to reveal to the audience that I was not reading from Isaiah 37 at all but from 2 KINGS 19! There was a terrible consternation in the audience! I had thus established 100% plagiarism in the “Holy Bible.” (See below)

    In other words, Isaiah 37 and 2 Kings 19 are identical word for word. Yet they have been attributed to two different authors, centuries apart, whom the Christians claim have been inspired by God.

    Who is copying whom? Who is stealing from whom? The 32 renowned Bible scholars of the RSV say that the author of the Book of Kings is “UNKNOWN!” See later on for a reproduction from the RSV by “Collins’”. These notes on the Bible were prepared and edited by the Right Rev. David J. Fant, Litt. D., General Secretary of the New York Bible Society. Naturally, if the Most Reverend gentlemen of Christiandom had an iota of belief about the Bible being the Word of God, they would have said so, but they honestly (shamefacedly?) confess: “Author — UNKNOWN!” They are prepared to pay lip service to Scriptures which could have been penned by any Tom, Dick or Harry and expect everyone to regard these as the Word of God — Heaven forbid!

    100% PLAGARISM

    II KINGS 19
    ISAIAH 37

    AND it came to pass. when king Hez-e-ki’-ah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the lord.
    2 And he sent E-li’-a-kim. which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the ‘elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
    3 And they said unto him. Thus saith Hez-e-ki’-ah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy : for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.
    5 So the servants of king Hez-e-ki’-ah came to Isaiah.
    10 Thus shall ye speak to Hez-e-ki’-ah king of Judah, saying. Let not thy God in whom thou trustest deceive thee, saying. Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria.
    11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands, by destroying them utterly: and shalt thou be delivered?
    12 Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Ha-ran. and Rezeph. and the children of Eden which were in Thel’-a-sar?
    14 And Hez-e-ki’-ah received the letter of the hand of the messengers. and read it: and Hezekiah went up into the house of the lord, and spread it before the lord;
    15 And Hez-e-ki’-ah prayed before the lord, and said. O lord God of Israel, which dwellest between the cher’-u-bims. thou art the God. even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth, thou hast made heaven and earth.
    36 So Sen-nach’-er-ib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nin’-e-veh.
    37 And it came to pass. as he was worshipping in the house of Nis’-roch his god, that A-dram’-me-lech and Sha-re’-zer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into (he land of Armenia. And E-sar-had’-don his son reigned in his stead.
    AND it came to pass. when king Hez-e-ki’-ah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the lord.
    2 And he sent E-li’-a-kim. who was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests covered with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
    3 And they said unto him. Thus saith Hez-e-ki’-ah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.
    5 So the servants of king Hez-e-ki’-ah came to Isaiah.
    10 Thus shall ye speak to Hez-e-ki’-ah king of Judah. saying. Let not thy God. in whom thou trustest, deceive thee, saving, Jerusalem shall not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.
    11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands by destroying them utterly; and shall thou be delivered?
    12 Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed, as Gozan, and Har-an. and Rezeph. and the children of Eden which were in Te-las’-sar?
    14 And Hez-e-ki’-ah received the letter from the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up unto the house of the lord, and spread it before the lord.
    15 And Hez-e-ki’-ah prayed unto the lord, saying,
    16 O lord of hosts. God of Israel. that dwellest between the cher’-u-bims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
    37 So Sen-nach’-er-ib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned. and dwelt at Nin’-e-veh.
    38 And it came to pass. as he was worshipping in thc_house of Nis’-roch his god, that A-dram’-me-lecb and Sha-rc’-zcr his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia: and E’-sar-had’-don his son reigned in his stead.

    These verses are culled from the Authorised Version, but you will find the same in every Version.

    NO VERBAL INSPIRATION

    (For a complete list of all the books of the Bible and their authors, avail yourself of the “Collins’” R.S.V. ‘with’ its annotations). What have Christian scholars to say about the “Book of Isaiah?” They say: “MAINLY CREDITED TO ISAIAH. PARTS MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY OTHERS” In view of the confessions of Bible scholars, we will not take poor Isaiah to task. Can we then nail this plagiarism on the door of God? What blasphemy! Professor Cumptsy confirmed at question time, at the end of the aforementioned symposium that the “Christians do not believe in a verbal inspiration of the Bible” So God Almighty had not absent-mindedly dictated the same tale twice! Human hands, all too human, had played havoc with this so-called Word of God — the Bible. Yet, Bible-thumpers will insist that “every word, comma and full stop of the Bible is God’s Word!”

    P.S

    WE MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT ALL THE BOOKS OF BIBLE ARE HUMAN WRITINGS WITH CORRUPTION ADDED APART FROM FEW BITS AND PIECES IN THEM

    LIKE

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

    WHICH ARE DIVINELY INSPIRED

    WHICH CONFIRMS TO THE LAST AND FINAL UNCORRUPTED WORD OF GOD THE HOLY QURAN

    HOLY QURAN 3: 51 (Jesus said)”‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.’”

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

  35. Posted February 21, 2008 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Give me ample time to read your plagiarized and hearsay comment.

  36. Posted February 21, 2008 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786, how can you listen to J. B. Phillips? As you said, he is a paid servant! Was there any mention in the bible that Christians were paid to do God’s commandment? But what instead can we read from the bible about a servant of God? It is the servant who feeds the flock for free!

    Sufi786, you said(and I quote):

    “We are not alone in this discovery that Matthew did not write the “Gospel according to St. Matthew” and that it was written by some anonymous hand. J. B. Phillips concurs with us in our findings. He is the paid servant of the Anglican Church, a prebendary of the Chichester Cathedral, England. He would have no reason to lie or betray to the detriment of the official view of his Church! Refer to his introduction to the “Gospel of St. Matthew” (reproduced here below). Phillips has this to say about its authorship.”

    Sufi786, I have given verses from the Holy Bible for correction to your claims but then again, you remain faithful listening to the hypocrites who pretends to be Christians.

    I’ll give you a hint to distinguish a true Christians and those who pretends to be one. You will notice that True Christians can be distinguish not just in what their concept of God and Christianity is but also if these concepts is visible in their words and actions. These words and actions have basis and no contradictions, all can be read from the Holy Bible, through the help of God.

    Sufi786, I offered you that you might as well learn the Holy Bible from and with the Members, Church of God International instead of learning Christianity from the hypocrites. I am still hoping that you will reconsider listening to Bro Eli first as you give your questions directly to him.

    http://www.esoriano.wordpress.com

    If God will allow, Bro Eli will answer your long rebuttal above, point by point.

  37. Posted February 26, 2008 at 7:59 am | Permalink


    Elemantheman

    PLEASE ANSWER ME DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BELOW ARE THE WORD OF GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE ?

    Kill everything that “breathes” from humans and animals!

    Deuteronomy 20:16
    However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

    It is certainly the Bible’s principle and foundation to kill all humans and animals from the enemy’s side. If one wouldn’t call that terrorism, war crimes and mass-murdering, then what else should they call it?

    Suckling infants were executed by the tens of thousands:

    1 Samuel 15:2-4
    2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
    3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

    A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge:

    Psalm 137:8-9
    8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
    9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!

    I find it to be absolutely ridiculous that the bible feeds us all kinds of lies and contradictions about “love your enemy”, and yet, we see mass slaughter of suckling infants and innocent boys, girls, unarmed men, women (old and young), and innocent domestic farm animals by the tens of thousands! It is clear that the inconsistent man-altered, man-corrupted and morally corrupt bible is nothing but a false book, and can not be a Divine and Perfect Holy Book!

  38. Posted February 26, 2008 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Can I put my long answer here?

    You may try to proceed to my blog too for my answer!

  39. EYES
    Posted March 19, 2008 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Was Abraham(p) Jew ? Christian? or a Muslim ?

    He is the citizen of the world…

    His faith was acknowledge by Jews, Christian and Muslim.

  40. the 3
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Well let me just say this…. I believe that Abraham was just a monotheist who obeyed and loved God with all his heart. He was not a Jew because the laws and costums of the Jewish faith were not layed down until Moses. He was not a Christian because Jesus did not spread his word yet or reveal himself to the world. He was not a Muslim because he did not follow the 5 pillars of Islam and The Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w) was not born yet to share his final revealation.


7 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

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  2. [...] “is” and “one Lord” means?  Does it means that God is a Lord too?  If Sufi786 is insinuating that God is the only Lord, then, it should be the one written on that verse.  But [...]

  3. [...] that they know their God, but do not understand God’s plan?  Below is a comment made by sufi786  from his post: Was Abraham(p) Jew ? Christian? or a Muslim ?, from his blog: THE ONLY TRUE [...]

  4. [...] February 2008 · No Comments Sufi786, how can you listen to J. B. Phillips? As you said, he is a paid servant! Was there any mention in [...]

  5. [...] Sufi786, how can you listen to J. B. Phillips? As you said, he is a paid servant! Was there any mention in the bible that Christians were paid to do God’s commandment? If in the midst of the Church of God, the savege wolves did not spare the flock, how much more those mute dogs with mighty appetites will do to people outside the Church of God? Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. [...]

  6. [...] Muslim as he claimed to be, sufi786 was trying to prove that the Holy Bible was corrupted by saying: “I find it to be absolutely [...]

  7. [...] sufi786 published an entertaining and interesting post on Was Abraham(p) Jew ? Christian? or a Muslim ?See below for a small excerpt of the post: [...]

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