Comments on: KALI HINDU GODDESS OF VIOLENCE – WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN BETWEEN A DEMON AND A GOD http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/ COME AND JOIN A SERIES OF DEBATES AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHICH IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:10:04 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Rosalia http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1353 Rosalia Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:06:49 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1353 its good ded godess kali that do its good ded godess kali that do

]]> By: RLA http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1336 RLA Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:53:06 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1336 Thanks to everyone who wrote/posted comments clarifying Kali's role in Hinduism. The person who created this page obviously has ulterior motives. Unlike many other world faiths Hinduism has a very long (if not the longest) tradition of kindness, love and was founded on tolerance, historicly making India one of the most diverse nations in the world. The words on this page aren't worth the time or frustration it takes to read through them; the only possible end result being mistrust, intolerance and hate; something the world certainely doesn't need any more of. Thanks to everyone who wrote/posted comments clarifying Kali’s role in Hinduism. The person who created this page obviously has ulterior motives. Unlike many other world faiths Hinduism has a very long (if not the longest) tradition of kindness, love and was founded on tolerance, historicly making India one of the most diverse nations in the world. The words on this page aren’t worth the time or frustration it takes to read through them; the only possible end result being mistrust, intolerance and hate; something the world certainely doesn’t need any more of.

]]> By: Mark http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1321 Mark Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:27:44 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1321 the "truth" about religion is that there is no "true" religion, religion is man's best attempt at putting words to a devine that we can not undertand, there are fundementals in every religion that all point to the same thing, to me we argue the details of an obscure ideal. i mean it's like looking at a van gogh painting and arguing which colour is more blue, the painting is there regardless if you can see it or not. open your heart, be good to others, share, live love laugh, isn't that what any god would want? the “truth” about religion is that there is no “true” religion,
religion is man’s best attempt at putting words to a devine that we can not undertand, there are fundementals in every religion that all point to the same thing, to me we argue the details of an obscure ideal. i mean it’s like looking at a van gogh painting and arguing which colour is more blue, the painting is there regardless if you can see it or not. open your heart, be good to others, share, live love laugh, isn’t that what any god would want?

]]> By: Scott http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1315 Scott Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:42:24 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1315 People of every single religion misunderstand the teachings of their chosen faith. Faith and actions are different according to the degree of ones understanding. Christs faith was reflected in his actions just as were those of Buddhas and of Muhammad....etc....So many others. Yes, Gods power and love are beyond definition, and yet the masters of different faiths have still tried to speak about that essence for our own benefit. Even the closest disciples surrounding a master will misunderstand him or her. Look at all the separate sects and divisions in all religions....My point is that we all see only through the veils of our own perceptions...They are like clouds that obscure what truth may be right in front of us...The true demon or devil in any religion is the notion of self. Satan or ahankara is the multilayered potency of the thought "I am"...as an individual, that creates a sense of separation...Kali is a symbol of enlightened courage and her sword is the razor like power of wisdom to cut through our own deluded impressions regarding the permanance of things. She, like any other symbol is a symbol that represents what is beyond intellect. She is a warrior. the spiritual path is like a war as well...Greed, ignorance, hatred...all must be conquered through love, by grace, and through wisdom...etc. So many paths...unique as there are forms of life. God lets there be trees and birds, lions and whales.....They are not lesser in gods eyes because they speak diferently and act differently. Each animal is like a different path or expression of life, but as humans we do not understand them and what they teach...We may often pervert the true motivating force or seed intent of an animal by trying to translate their actions according to our own conditioning. OUr conditioning is what blinds us and causes us to make many assumptions about things in the world. We need to be taught how to be more broadminded, otherwise we will only sow more division in the world...Kali demands only the surrender of our notion of self. The true sacrifice is the same in all faiths, its just that the emphasis is upon form or formless. Within Hinduiism it is said that in the end, one needs to let let go the form...In Islam there is a strict prohibition to represent God with Form because perhaps too often it is seen how people misunderstand forms and grow attached to them in the wrong way..saying "My god is more beautiful than your god." or "my god is the true god, and if you don't convert then I will have to kill your family..." etc. It is hard to welcome other faiths with open arms. It takes courage to challenge ones own beliefs against another. Every religion has its unique beauty...just like the diversity of every country. Even in Islam, Judaism, and in Buddhism there can be the dogmatism that arises out of an atachment to the formless, to the idea that God cannot be represented...The idea of formlessness is still a concept. Any concept therefore has its limits. To describe that which cannot be described still requires concepts, just as describing the meaning of a form like kali requires concepts too. Forms most always represent that which is beyond the rhealm of thought. Nonetheless, virtuous thoughts are tremendously powerful...and are said to grow as our faith and surrender grow....With greater Love arises greater compassion and tolerance...Organized religions often get caught into power struggles...People and power, ego and the will to posses and control...There are examples of religious leaders who strive to cut through the shallow dogmatism of intolerance by teaching unity and a focus on what is common in all faiths...or atleast to teach without slandering another faith. Perhaps this is why Christ and many other teachers speak in stories and Parables. They are meant to be reflected upon until they are felt and lived. It is hard to place a concreteness on reality other than what is evident before our very eyes. Even so, we all look at a snowflake with a different view... I don't know what your background is in religious study, but I will say that in my opinion you are under wrong views. From what I see on your Blog, it seems that you are either Christian or Islamic...It makes no difference. I think that if you held the view that all faiths are equal in Gods eyes that you would not harbor such harsh judgments against another religion. To hold the view that ones own faith is better than anothers is only a cause for suffering for oneself and others. Religious teachers often try to demonstrate their superiority by comparing themselves to other religions. So, if there is this view of superiority, than there will be indifference and ignorance to what is a common shared ground. People misinterpret all teachings in the world...It is a tendency within the human organism, not a flaw in the teaching themselves. Christianity and Islam have fought many many horrible wars in the name of God. Can we blame God for that, or should we hold ourselves accountable? Lets say there is a soldier who fights a war that is full of lies and corruption...this particular soldier has great faith, and in his service and because of the seed of his intentions or motivations, he will still have gods blessings when he dies in battle...There may be another soldier who is motivated by hatred and desire for fame and perhaps fights on the side that is in fact just...This likely has a different outcome. Just because one stands on the "right" side doesnt mean one is guaranteed anything. Yes, the demonic representation of god is a bit scary and hard for many to embrace...but what else would Gods wrath look like? Does it look like little cherubims shooting tiny arrows? Imagine Archangel Micheal after battling with Satan...Michael must have been covered with Blood and dirt...his eyes wild with Gods power surging through him. We all have our inner demons, and Kali is a form that represents the force inside all of us that can cut through that fear, ignorance and isolation. Religions should focus on the essence of what lies beneaths its forms, its rituals, its specific and calculated prayers...The idea of Kali is a concept just as praying 4 times a day is a cultural construct, just as is the ritual of the eucharist. It matters more the intention of ones actions and not exactly what they look like. How often do people misinterpret the things we do and say everyday? Due to those misunderstandings, we are either hurt and pushed to anger, or feel compassion and patiently strive to communicate more clearly. These are things we experience everyday that have little to do with god...but they are inherent in the conflict of ideas pertaining to faith and refuge. We should focus on the commonality we all share like love, family, need for food and shelter, love of music, art...The true god that humanity rallies around should be Nature itself. What better form than this that we can all touch. Religions are guidelines and are a source of blessings by connecting with the masters who have come to be represented by them. Ideally, the presence of a Living teacher is needed to help one gain insight into the meaning of the texts and what they point to....otherwise we are like dumb sheep following blindly one who is also blind. Well, too much said, but I pray that you are open to read this and that it brings clarity....Peace. Scott. People of every single religion misunderstand the teachings of their chosen faith. Faith and actions are different according to the degree of ones understanding. Christs faith was reflected in his actions just as were those of Buddhas and of Muhammad….etc….So many others. Yes, Gods power and love are beyond definition, and yet the masters of different faiths have still tried to speak about that essence for our own benefit. Even the closest disciples surrounding a master will misunderstand him or her. Look at all the separate sects and divisions in all religions….My point is that we all see only through the veils of our own perceptions…They are like clouds that obscure what truth may be right in front of us…The true demon or devil in any religion is the notion of self. Satan or ahankara is the multilayered potency of the thought “I am”…as an individual, that creates a sense of separation…Kali is a symbol of enlightened courage and her sword is the razor like power of wisdom to cut through our own deluded impressions regarding the permanance of things. She, like any other symbol is a symbol that represents what is beyond intellect. She is a warrior. the spiritual path is like a war as well…Greed, ignorance, hatred…all must be conquered through love, by grace, and through wisdom…etc. So many paths…unique as there are forms of life. God lets there be trees and birds, lions and whales…..They are not lesser in gods eyes because they speak diferently and act differently. Each animal is like a different path or expression of life, but as humans we do not understand them and what they teach…We may often pervert the true motivating force or seed intent of an animal by trying to translate their actions according to our own conditioning. OUr conditioning is what blinds us and causes us to make many assumptions about things in the world. We need to be taught how to be more broadminded, otherwise we will only sow more division in the world…Kali demands only the surrender of our notion of self. The true sacrifice is the same in all faiths, its just that the emphasis is upon form or formless. Within Hinduiism it is said that in the end, one needs to let let go the form…In Islam there is a strict prohibition to represent God with Form because perhaps too often it is seen how people misunderstand forms and grow attached to them in the wrong way..saying “My god is more beautiful than your god.” or “my god is the true god, and if you don’t convert then I will have to kill your family…” etc. It is hard to welcome other faiths with open arms. It takes courage to challenge ones own beliefs against another. Every religion has its unique beauty…just like the diversity of every country. Even in Islam, Judaism, and in Buddhism there can be the dogmatism that arises out of an atachment to the formless, to the idea that God cannot be represented…The idea of formlessness is still a concept. Any concept therefore has its limits. To describe that which cannot be described still requires concepts, just as describing the meaning of a form like kali requires concepts too. Forms most always represent that which is beyond the rhealm of thought. Nonetheless, virtuous thoughts are tremendously powerful…and are said to grow as our faith and surrender grow….With greater Love arises greater compassion and tolerance…Organized religions often get caught into power struggles…People and power, ego and the will to posses and control…There are examples of religious leaders who strive to cut through the shallow dogmatism of intolerance by teaching unity and a focus on what is common in all faiths…or atleast to teach without slandering another faith.

Perhaps this is why Christ and many other teachers speak in stories and Parables. They are meant to be reflected upon until they are felt and lived. It is hard to place a concreteness on reality other than what is evident before our very eyes. Even so, we all look at a snowflake with a different view…
I don’t know what your background is in religious study, but I will say that in my opinion you are under wrong views. From what I see on your Blog, it seems that you are either Christian or Islamic…It makes no difference. I think that if you held the view that all faiths are equal in Gods eyes that you would not harbor such harsh judgments against another religion. To hold the view that ones own faith is better than anothers is only a cause for suffering for oneself and others. Religious teachers often try to demonstrate their superiority by comparing themselves to other religions. So, if there is this view of superiority, than there will be indifference and ignorance to what is a common shared ground. People misinterpret all teachings in the world…It is a tendency within the human organism, not a flaw in the teaching themselves. Christianity and Islam have fought many many horrible wars in the name of God. Can we blame God for that, or should we hold ourselves accountable? Lets say there is a soldier who fights a war that is full of lies and corruption…this particular soldier has great faith, and in his service and because of the seed of his intentions or motivations, he will still have gods blessings when he dies in battle…There may be another soldier who is motivated by hatred and desire for fame and perhaps fights on the side that is in fact just…This likely has a different outcome. Just because one stands on the “right” side doesnt mean one is guaranteed anything.
Yes, the demonic representation of god is a bit scary and hard for many to embrace…but what else would Gods wrath look like? Does it look like little cherubims shooting tiny arrows? Imagine Archangel Micheal after battling with Satan…Michael must have been covered with Blood and dirt…his eyes wild with Gods power surging through him. We all have our inner demons, and Kali is a form that represents the force inside all of us that can cut through that fear, ignorance and isolation.
Religions should focus on the essence of what lies beneaths its forms, its rituals, its specific and calculated prayers…The idea of Kali is a concept just as praying 4 times a day is a cultural construct, just as is the ritual of the eucharist. It matters more the intention of ones actions and not exactly what they look like. How often do people misinterpret the things we do and say everyday? Due to those misunderstandings, we are either hurt and pushed to anger, or feel compassion and patiently strive to communicate more clearly. These are things we experience everyday that have little to do with god…but they are inherent in the conflict of ideas pertaining to faith and refuge. We should focus on the commonality we all share like love, family, need for food and shelter, love of music, art…The true god that humanity rallies around should be Nature itself. What better form than this that we can all touch.
Religions are guidelines and are a source of blessings by connecting with the masters who have come to be represented by them. Ideally, the presence of a Living teacher is needed to help one gain insight into the meaning of the texts and what they point to….otherwise we are like dumb sheep following blindly one who is also blind. Well, too much said, but I pray that you are open to read this and that it brings clarity….Peace. Scott.

]]> By: Devin http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1279 Devin Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:55:42 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1279 Dude, There is something seriously wrong here. Kali has been misrepresented in your post. That isn't Lord Shiva she is standing over but an imposter. Dude everything you have written about the Goddess is WRONG. Nobody does blood sacrifices anymore. Not in civilised India anyway. Very bad things befall people who misuse the powers supposedly attributed to Kali or use her for the wrong things. The example of the family from Trinidad may be true. I think you'd better start praying hard. Dev Dude,

There is something seriously wrong here. Kali has been misrepresented in your post. That isn’t Lord Shiva she is standing over but an imposter. Dude everything you have written about the Goddess is WRONG. Nobody does blood sacrifices anymore. Not in civilised India anyway.

Very bad things befall people who misuse the powers supposedly attributed to Kali or use her for the wrong things. The example of the family from Trinidad may be true.

I think you’d better start praying hard.

Dev

]]> By: childofdevi http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1224 childofdevi Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:02:38 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1224 hi,i believe that if you don't have full knowledge about something or someone (as in this case),then probably you should not be as bold as to make such terrible comments about this Goddess who is respected and loved by so many of her devotees because of her caring,loving and protective nature.Mother Kali is Not a demon and I hurt after reading what you have written about her.She is that loving Goddess who protects the good and destroys all negative and evil.You need to get your facts straight before writing okay. hi,i believe that if you don’t have full knowledge about something or someone (as in this case),then probably you should not be as bold as to make such terrible comments about this Goddess who is respected and loved by so many of her devotees because of her caring,loving and protective nature.Mother Kali is Not a demon and I hurt after reading what you have written about her.She is that loving Goddess who protects the good and destroys all negative and evil.You need to get your facts straight before writing okay.

]]> By: jijin http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1178 jijin Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:04:45 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1178 pls send me some photos of godds pls send me some photos of godds

]]> By: TheAbysmal http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1176 TheAbysmal Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:20:27 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1176 according to Joseph Campbell, she's also the goddess of Time. This might equate her with a deity like Kronos. according to Joseph Campbell, she’s also the goddess of Time. This might equate her with a deity like Kronos.

]]> By: samara balgobin http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1145 samara balgobin Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:50:18 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1145 In Trinidad there is a Kali sacrifice worship temple in Pasea and they are fooling people.When you now started going there all is working out and from the moment you begin to be rising to another level the owner from the temple begin to start fooling you and pretends to call up power to talk to people and it is really the owner who keeps saying i will help you and i promise you this and that and the other. Even the members of the temple are having problems and some how or the other they are hypnotized not to see any of these things .There lives are miserable like they have lost their children,broken marriages, barren women,bad living and to me total unhappiness, but again i say they cant see these things. What are your types of worship to gain help in having a good business and a happy life In Trinidad there is a Kali sacrifice worship temple in Pasea and they are fooling people.When you now started going there all is working out and from the moment you begin to be rising to another level the owner from the temple begin to start fooling you and pretends to call up power to talk to people and it is really the owner who keeps saying i will help you and i promise you this and that and the other.
Even the members of the temple are having problems and some how or the other they are hypnotized not to see any of these things .There lives are miserable like they have lost their children,broken marriages, barren women,bad living and to me total unhappiness, but again i say they cant see these things.
What are your types of worship to gain help in having a good business and a happy life

]]> By: Anbu http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/#comment-1133 Anbu Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:21:52 +0000 http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/?p=101#comment-1133 Dear Mr/Mrs/or X, Please listen that, Kali the belowed goddes of ours, means, a warrior against the evilthings. Even though the God/Goddess can conquer/kill the evil things by a sight, but they want to show that we should know the end of each of our actions, i.e good for goodness and bad end for evilthing. that is, we should follow the term "LOVE EACH OTHER", And so you will be loved. IF YOU ACT LIKE EVIL YOU WILL BE GETTING BACK THE END OF EVIL".As a human (our behaviou is), we will not change ourself without getting experience. We will not change(or keep oursef good) ourself without fear on god. Our Hindu goddess Kali is looks like terror(for you...) because the evil should not make the holy & innocent people to do antiholy things by afraid of them. If a god is like Highly Terror, people will feel support to them (Moral support to their correct way of life style,i.e no enemy for their followings (if you have support to your activity, how do you feel about the problem in front of you?). And you can find the Goddess Kali has in the posters, she is killing the evil things not a human or animal, this is expressed in each photos. But it is been negatively understood or negatively spreaded that she is a Goddess of Anger or demon. One thing, will you accept that a person is against to you, if he is smiling with you always or will you see the alltime warrior in happy and smiling face. The temple - makes you fresh and happy (you can feel whenever you are visiting the temples)They are built with certain, unimaginery, noncompremiseable dimensions, to receive the devine power and to explode to the people. And the good thinking people getting exploded the good powers and evil thinking people also. because the temples are strenthening your will (It is good or bad). And so your powers are multiplied. Your powers are multiplied, if you are kind hearted, it is good for the society, in negative it is highly dangerous. Then who has to conquer the evil power. All innocent and kind hearted will not be against the things which will hurt (if it is good or evil). Then who will take initiate? and so you need some initiative..... for that is GODDESS KALI In our Hindu, No saadhu killed any living, and no saadhu is against even to evil, all they loved, and loving.... In any case the evil has to be stopped/conquerred in any one of the way... And our God/Goddess in the hot face is only the SAVIOR OF PEOPLE OR SAINT OR INNOCENT. (you will not kill a mosquito in smiling face...if you can you try...that time see your face in mirror) One more thing, As I understood, in Holy Quran, it says to fight against the evil things, i.e fight against the antigod belief, is it not? But the basic of The Quran is "LOVE ALL LIVINGTHINGS" In Chrisianism, The Bible is the bunch of Kindness, But Jesus has destroyed all evil things (that may not be human, but surely evil thinking) That means, In all the Religion, all the God/Goddess are loving you all and saving us from all the evil things in a different manner. You please understand, no god told us to give blood to them, these are all the misunderstood and misguided things. AND PLEASE NOTE THAT, FIND THE FACT BEFORE COMMENTING ON ANYTHING, IT MAKES LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST Anbu Dear Mr/Mrs/or X,

Please listen that, Kali the belowed goddes of ours, means, a warrior against the evilthings. Even though the God/Goddess can conquer/kill the evil things by a sight, but they want to show that we should know the end of each of our actions, i.e good for goodness and bad end for evilthing. that is, we should follow the term “LOVE EACH OTHER”, And so you will be loved. IF YOU ACT LIKE EVIL YOU WILL BE GETTING BACK THE END OF EVIL”.As a human (our behaviou is), we will not change ourself without getting experience. We will not change(or keep oursef good) ourself without fear on god. Our Hindu goddess Kali is looks like terror(for you…) because the evil should not make the holy & innocent people to do antiholy things by afraid of them. If a god is like Highly Terror, people will feel support to them (Moral support to their correct way of life style,i.e no enemy for their followings (if you have support to your activity, how do you feel about the problem in front of you?).

And you can find the Goddess Kali has in the posters, she is killing the evil things not a human or animal, this is expressed in each photos. But it is been negatively understood or negatively spreaded that she is a Goddess of Anger or demon.

One thing, will you accept that a person is against to you, if he is smiling with you always or will you see the alltime warrior in happy and smiling face.

The temple – makes you fresh and happy (you can feel whenever you are visiting the temples)They are built with certain, unimaginery, noncompremiseable dimensions, to receive the devine power and to explode to the people.

And the good thinking people getting exploded the good powers and evil thinking people also. because the temples are strenthening your will (It is good or bad). And so your powers are multiplied.

Your powers are multiplied, if you are kind hearted, it is good for the society, in negative it is highly dangerous. Then who has to conquer the evil power. All innocent and kind hearted will not be against the things which will hurt (if it is good or evil). Then who will take initiate? and so you need some initiative….. for that is GODDESS KALI

In our Hindu, No saadhu killed any living, and no saadhu is against even to evil, all they loved, and loving….

In any case the evil has to be stopped/conquerred in any one of the way…

And our God/Goddess in the hot face is only the SAVIOR OF PEOPLE OR SAINT OR INNOCENT. (you will not kill a mosquito in smiling face…if you can you try…that time see your face in mirror)

One more thing,
As I understood, in Holy Quran, it says to fight against the evil things, i.e fight against the antigod belief, is it not?

But the basic of The Quran is “LOVE ALL LIVINGTHINGS”

In Chrisianism, The Bible is the bunch of Kindness, But Jesus has destroyed all evil things (that may not be human, but surely evil thinking)

That means, In all the Religion, all the God/Goddess are loving you all and saving us from all the evil things in a different manner.

You please understand, no god told us to give blood to them, these are all the misunderstood and misguided things.

AND PLEASE NOTE THAT,

FIND THE FACT BEFORE COMMENTING ON ANYTHING, IT MAKES LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE

WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST
Anbu

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