Salvation in Islam vs. Salvation in Christianity – The Only Video a Muslim or a Christian May Need To See On Salvation

Salvation in Islam vs. Salvation in Christianity – The Only Video a Muslim or a Christian May Need To See On Salvation

NAME : MUSLIM

I’m a former believing Christian who embraced Islam and now I share Allah’s message of salvation and love with you.

I also share with you the authentic teaching of Prophet Jesus (p).

I love Allah because He first loved me.

This is a question that gets to the heart of the matter. Which faith leads to eternal salvation, Islam or Christianity?

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26 Comments

  1. Posted March 13, 2008 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Hello,

    The guy in the video asks whether Islam or Christianity is better, and I would say that is a totally irrelevant question. It doesn’t matter which we prefer. It only matters what the truth is. Even if I preferred Islam, and the Bible turned out to be true, I would be going to hell.

    We’ve all broken God’s law. No one has to teach us how to tell a lie, steal, look at a woman with lust, thereby committing adultery in our heart (Matt. 5:28), or disobey our parents. That is evidence to me that we are born sinners, dead in our sin.

    The Bible says blood is required to atone for our sins. Islam says God forgives in exchange for repentance or keeping the 5 pillars and other good deeds. If I was guilty of breaking the law, and I’m standing in front of the judge, and I tell the judge I’ve washed his car and mowed his lawn and that should make up for my crime, he’s going to add bribery to my list of crimes, and send me to prison. Only a wicked, corrupt judge would let a guilty criminal off for a bribe, or for good deeds already committed. The guy in the video describes Allah as this corrupt judge.

    In Christianity, we’re guilty of breaking the law, but the Judge comes down off the bench and pays my fine Himself. I’m free to go, because justice has been served, out of the kindness, love and mercy of the Judge.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  2. Posted March 14, 2008 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    BILL SAID

    In Christianity, we’re guilty of breaking the law, but the Judge comes down off the bench and pays my fine Himself. I’m free to go, because justice has been served, out of the kindness, love and mercy of the Judge.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    MY REPLY:

    Dear Bill

    Please wake up Bill from your delusion , killing an Innocent Man ,Nailing and Hammering Him on the Cross , so that he bleeds till death for a SIN which he did not commit but someone else committed is JUSTICE of God according to you ???

  3. Posted March 14, 2008 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    Since we have sinned against an infinitely holy God, our penalty is infinite. Who can pay an infinite penalty except God? God Himself came down and died on the cross, and rose from the dead.

    Again, in Islam, supposedly Allah can be bribed with good deeds. How is that justice? Only a wicked judge lets guilty criminals go free. Doesn’t Allah care about justice?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  4. Posted March 15, 2008 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    BILL SAID

    Sufi786,

    Since we have sinned against an infinitely holy God, our penalty is infinite. Who can pay an infinite penalty except God? God Himself came down and died on the cross, and rose from the dead.

    Again, in Islam, supposedly Allah can be bribed with good deeds. How is that justice? Only a wicked judge lets guilty criminals go free. Doesn’t Allah care about justice?

    Thanks,
    Bill

    MY REPLY :

    Dear Bill

    SO you think it is just that GOD dies for your sins and you go away scot free!!!, what kind of attitude and Justice is that .

    If God makes a mockery of Humans and Dies for their Sins then what is the point in God giving the the Ten Commandments to Follow when any way if you follow or not you will be forgive because God has died for our Sins !!!

    And what kind of Justice is this of God when he made the Jews and all the Prophets from Adam to John the Baptist suffer to Follow the Commandments when he was going to die for their Sins ???, why did God fool every body born before Jesus ???, is this justice ??? – Please Bill Think don’t Imagine but Think !!!

    And about Allah being bribed by good deeds is Myth and lie , there is no such thing as Allah being bribed by the good deeds of his servants , because God is in no need of good deeds or bad deeds of his servant s, it is his servants who need a proper code of conduct in oder to be qualified being called as human beings in the first place !!!

    Human beings will enter Allah’s Paradise and Human Animals will enter Allah’s Hell – it is as simple as that .

    “For those who Believe and work righteous deeds is a reward that will never fail. Quran 41/8

    ” Whoever works evil will be Requited accordingly. Nor will he find besides Allah, Any protector or helper. Quran 4/123

    P.S BILL

    PLEASE WAKE UP
    JESUS IS GOD ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANS AND THE CHRISTIAN GOD DIED – EVEN FOR A SECOND( 3 DAYS EXACTLY ) BUT THE FACT IS THE CHRISTIAN GOD CAN DIE AND IS NOT ETERNAL.

    SO PLEASE ACCEPT THE ISLAM AND BELIEVE IN THE ONE TRUE EVERLIVING GOD OF ABRAHAM ALLAH

    HOLY QURAN Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

    1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    WHO’S GOD DIED ON THE CROSS YOUR OR MINE ?

    WHO IS A PAGAN WORSHIPING IDOLS OF JESUS , YOU OR ME ?

    WHO’S GOD IS GREATER YOURS AND MINE ?

    FOR YOUR GOD WANTED THE INNOCENT BLOOD OF HIS SON TO FORGIVE YOU, BUT MY GOD DOES NOT REQUIRE SUCH CRUEL PLEASING TO FORGIVE ME , FOR HE FORGIVES ALL THE SINS IF A PERSON REPENTS SINCERELY- THE SINNER HAS TO REPENT BEFORE ALLAH CAN FORGIVE HIM OR HER FOR THEN ONLY HE WILL BECOME A HUMAN BEING AND NOT AN ANIMAL WHO ALREADY KNOWS GOD SUPPOSEDLY DIED FOR HIS SINS SO HE CAN DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING !!! .

    ALLAH FORGIVES ALL SINS

    “Say: O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls.
    Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is
    Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Holy Quran 39:53

    NO SIR MY GOD NEVER DIED , BUT YOUR GOD DIED ON THE CROSS , KILLED BY A BUNCH OF HUMANS , FACE IT YOUR GOD COULD NOT EVEN SAVE HIMSELF FROM BEING KILLED , THEN HOW HE IS GOING TO SAVE YOU AND ME ?

    Matthew 27:46 tells us that about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

    PEACE

    P.S

    I KNOW GOD CAN NEVER DIE , I ALSO KNOW YOUR GOD NEVER DIED BUT YOU CHRISTIANS HAVE LIED .

    THANK YOU

    BILL

    MAY ALLAH GUIDE TO FROM THIS BAD DREAM INTO THE REALITY AND FACTS

  5. Posted March 15, 2008 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    You say that if I do the following, I can go to heaven:

    “1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    THE SINNER HAS TO REPENT BEFORE ALLAH CAN FORGIVE HIM OR HER FOR THEN ONLY HE WILL BECOME A HUMAN BEING AND NOT AN ANIMAL…”

    The problem is that that is exchanging my good, religious deeds for forgiveness. Exchanging anything for the Judge’s forgiveness is bribery. Justice must be served. God is infinitely just, and to Him, your religious works are filthy, bloody menstrual rags (Isaiah 64:6).

    Also, let’s say someone repented and prayed the prayers you provided. Do they not have to continue on in obeying the laws? How badly can they mess up before Allah unforgives them? You trying to keep the laws is just trying to walk up to the Judge of the universe with another handful of filthy rags.

    You have sinned against an infinitely holy God, and justice must be served.

    Those who lived before Jesus are saved in the same way I am. God saves me, and makes me a new creation. I had nothing to do with it; it’s a gift. I intend to keep the commandments–not to earn His favor (or bribe Him into letting me into heaven), but because He’s done so much to save me. When I get to heaven, I’m not going to be able to brag about one thing. I won’t be able to say I was smarter, or lived a better life, or was more open to righteousness. I was dead in my sins, and God brought me back to life.

    So I still don’t understand how you can say Allah is not a corrupt judge who cannot be bribed. Exchanging good works for forgiveness is the definition of bribery.

  6. Mohamed Abdel Karim
    Posted March 16, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Dear Bill :

    What makes some people good and others evil??
    It’s the way you act. the good deeds you do in your life.
    You don’t bribe God and no one said so. The good deeds that you do are totally for your self to deserve heaven.
    God will never forgive you if you said what ever you want with empty heart. But he will if you really sensed the regret of your sins and the will, the real will inside you that you will struggle against your self not to fall in this sin again. you will be forgiven if you are sincere. It’s not about words. Its about actions and sincerity. And this is mercy that God will forgive you if you were really determined not to do sins against and you fought your self.
    But if you didn’t care and lived your life and did what ever you want neglecting the rules or laws of God in whatever religion cause you know that all your sins have been forgiven and you will enter heaven. Then here where is justice if God will make the ones who struggled and fought there selves not to fall in sins and the ones who did what ever they want the same at the end. Then where is justice.
    That’s what Islam is about. Its justice.
    You do the good for yourself and ask Allah to accept as you make it from your heart. And you will go to heaven if you are sincere.
    No one will shed blood for you, no one will pay the price of your sins except you and that’s fair. People may try to help you and support you and guide you but that’s all. And in the end it’s your actions what will define where your path will lead you.
    Am not asking you to join Islam. Just think my friend which is more logical. Which seems to be right? and know that the answer is in you. But people sometimes refuse to see because they fear the truth.

  7. Mohamed Abdel Karim
    Posted March 16, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Sorry there is a spelling mistake
    I meant “no one will shed blood for you”

  8. Posted March 16, 2008 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    As Salaam Alikum Brother Karim

    Correction done , thanks for your comments

  9. Posted March 16, 2008 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    BILL SAID

    Sufi786,

    You say that if I do the following, I can go to heaven:

    “1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    THE SINNER HAS TO REPENT BEFORE ALLAH CAN FORGIVE HIM OR HER FOR THEN ONLY HE WILL BECOME A HUMAN BEING AND NOT AN ANIMAL…”

    The problem is that that is exchanging my good, religious deeds for forgiveness. Exchanging anything for the Judge’s forgiveness is bribery. Justice must be served. God is infinitely just, and to Him, your religious works are filthy, bloody menstrual rags (Isaiah 64:6).

    Also, let’s say someone repented and prayed the prayers you provided. Do they not have to continue on in obeying the laws? How badly can they mess up before Allah unforgives them? You trying to keep the laws is just trying to walk up to the Judge of the universe with another handful of filthy rags.

    You have sinned against an infinitely holy God, and justice must be served.

    Those who lived before Jesus are saved in the same way I am. God saves me, and makes me a new creation. I had nothing to do with it; it’s a gift. I intend to keep the commandments–not to earn His favor (or bribe Him into letting me into heaven), but because He’s done so much to save me. When I get to heaven, I’m not going to be able to brag about one thing. I won’t be able to say I was smarter, or lived a better life, or was more open to righteousness. I was dead in my sins, and God brought me back to life.

    So I still don’t understand how you can say Allah is not a corrupt judge who cannot be bribed. Exchanging good works for forgiveness is the definition of bribery.

    MY REPLY:

    Bill be honest and tell me how can your God die ?

    If your God can die or can be killed by his own creation then he cannot save you or me !!!

    That is the fact , so see it with open mind

    Please see God is ETERNAL and the moment he dies he ceases to be God and can never be called as God , as the Attributes Eternal contradict the Mortal Attribute , so God has to be either ETERNAL OR NOT ETERNAL BUT MORTAL LIKE YOU AND ME , GOD CANNOT BE BOTH SAME TIME , BECAUSE GOD BECOMES A LIAR WHEN HE CLAIMS HE IS ETERNAL THE MOMENT HE DIES !!!- IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT , FOR EVEN A 7 YEAR OLD KID !!!

    Bill when you say making Animals Humans into proper good Human beings by encouraging them to do good deeds is a Bribe which God takes then I will say what a wonderful Loving and Just God is Allah !!!- Can you see that – in whatever way you put the God of Islam is PERFECT –

    HE NEVER DIES SO HE IS ETERNAL

    HE CANNOT BE KILLED SO HE IS ALL POWERFUL

    HE FORGIVES ALL SINS WITHOUT RITUAL BLOOD BATH OR SACRIFICE OF ANY HUMAN , SO HE IS THE MOST KIND AND MERCIFUL GOD

    HE BEGETS NOR IS BEGOTTEN , SO HE IS THE PURE ONE FREE FROM HUMAN FILTH AND WEAKNESS

    HE ENCOURAGES THE SINNER TO REFORM HIMSELF BY ASKING HIM TO BECOME GOOD AND REPENT FOR HIS BAD DEED , IF THIS IS BRIBE WHICH ALLAH TAKES ACCORDING TO BILL , THEN I WOULD SAY WHAT A WONDERFUL BRIBE IT IS !!!

    PEACE- MAY ONE TRUE ETERNAL GOD OF ABRAHAM(P) , JESUS(P) AND MUHAMMAD (S) GUIDE YOU – A GOD WHOS REAL NAME IN ARABIC IS ALLAH , A GOD THAT NEVER DIED AND CAN NEVER BE KILLED BY ANY TOM DICK AND HARRY !!! OR ANY FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE !!!

  10. Posted March 17, 2008 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    American Heritage Dictionary
    bribe
    1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person’s views or conduct.
    2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

    Do you deny that being sincerely repentant, or doing good deeds in exchange for forgiveness is a bribe?

    Mr. Karim at least attempted to answer my question, though it seems obvious to me that his answer is that Allah can be bribed with good works and sincere repentance.

    He said, “The good deeds that you do are totally for your self to deserve heaven.”

    We all deserve to be punished in eternal fire for breaking the law of an infinitely holy God. No one is good. We all have desperately wicked hearts (Jeremiah 17:9). The question then becomes what can we do to pay our infinite penalty? I don’t have the means to pay an infinite penalty, and neither do you. Certainly doing good deeds won’t cut it, right? Being sincere won’t cut it.

    The Bible says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Have you ever in your entire life told a lie? If you have, you’re a liar, and deserve the lake of fire.

    If I lied to a child, I wouldn’t suffer any consequences. If I lied to my boss, I could be fired. If I lie while under oath at the county court, I could go to jail. If I lied (under the right circumstances) to the U.S. government, that would be treason, and I could be executed. Our punishment is determined by the importance of the person we lie to. If we lie to the infinitely holy, Almighty Creator, our penalty is infinite. What can you do to pay your infinite penalty? Justice must be served.

    Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Jesus as a man died on the cross. God didn’t die on the cross. The greatest act of love is to die for one’s friends (John 15:13). God voluntarily gave His life–not for His friends, but for His enemies. This was all prophesied long in advance.

    Again, doing good deeds or being sincerely repentant in exchange for forgiveness is bribery. If this is how Allah works, then he cannot be the one true God, because he is unjust.

    Thanks for the conversation,
    Bill

  11. Posted March 18, 2008 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    BILL SAID

    Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Jesus as a man died on the cross. God didn’t die on the cross. The greatest act of love is to die for one’s friends (John 15:13). God voluntarily gave His life–not for His friends, but for His enemies. This was all prophesied long in advance.

    Again, doing good deeds or being sincerely repentant in exchange for forgiveness is bribery. If this is how Allah works, then he cannot be the one true God, because he is unjust.

    Thanks for the conversation,
    Bill

    MY REPLY :

    Bill IF Jesus is 100% MAN = NO SCOPE OF BEING EVEN A 0.1% GOD

    IF JESUS IS 100% GOD = NO SCOPE OF BEING EVEN A 0.1% MAN

    LEAVE ALONE BEING 100% BOTH

    IF JESUS THE MAN DIED THEN GOD HAS NOT DIED FOR OUR SINS,

    SO WE ARE BACK ON THE SQUARE ONE , THAT GOD DID NOT DIE FOR OUR SINS !!!

  12. Posted April 25, 2008 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    AWESOME……………….

  13. Mohamed
    Posted May 18, 2008 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Hello
    first of all i would like to thank my brother Muslim for his video, may GOD reward him for his words…
    But i would like to answer Mr billphillips who posted a comment saying that his merciful judge would come down off the bench and pay his fine so that he can go free… well according to your belief that GOD came down as Jesus and was sacrificed for your sins, then your judge should not only pay your fine but he should be sacrificed and killed for you to go free…
    would your kind judge do that for you ? !!!!!!!!!!!

  14. Posted May 19, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Mohamed,

    Would God sacrifice Himself for me? Yes. That’s what I was trying to explain. Jesus is God, and He died for me.

    How are you going to pay the penalty for your sins? Are you going to pay it yourself or have someone pay it for you?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  15. Posted May 22, 2008 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Bill
    SAID TO
    Mohamed,

    Would God sacrifice Himself for me? Yes. That’s what I was trying to explain. Jesus is God, and He died for me.

    How are you going to pay the penalty for your sins? Are you going to pay it yourself or have someone pay it for you?

    Thanks,
    Bill

    MY REPLY ;

    God would do what he has to do for us , are we going to tell God that he must die for us ?

    The answer is God is NOT going to do things for us which he cannot like DIE !!! why ?

    Because he is EVERLIVING AND HE CANNOT DIE EVEN IF HE WANTS TO !!!

  16. Posted May 22, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Sufi786,

    Clearly you’ve limited your god to not being able to enter into his own creation. Maybe he’s not powerful enough, or just can’t figure out how.

    Keep trying, and maybe you’ll please him enough to get him to forgive your sins. Do you guys have any tips for getting human judges to pervert justice? The idea of serving a god whose sense of justice isn’t even up to human standards seems strange to me. Maybe you see where I’m coming from.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  17. Mark Parker
    Posted May 22, 2008 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Brother Karim, and Bill, you are both mostly right, I have some scriptures for you.
    Bill keeping the commandments is a duty, we are commanded to repent; a duty; not a bribe. See the scriptures how we are judged, and how we are justified before God, our brother Karim is a sincere man with a good heart.
    Brother Karim please read and see how both mercy and justice can co-exist, one cannot rob the other. God must be just, for there to be a law there must be a punishment.
    What I read from those who practice Islam, is the belief that individuals are accountable and need to repent of their sins and forsake them, continually striving to live by all the commandments of God, having charity, good works and integrity. This is a true and correct principal and it is also a principal in common with true Christianity. The Christian scriptures stating that all mankind will be judged according to their works, weather they be good or evil:

    Revelation 20:
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    Christ taught that not all who called him Lord would be saved, why?

    Matthew 7:
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    The will of the Father is that mankind should keep all of his commandments having love one for another.

    Mankind is not justified according to what they believe, but according to their works.
    Abraham was justified by his works, yet ‘Devils believe and tremble’ because their works follow them and condemn them, and they are not justified before God.

    James;
    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    However if a man sins his moral character is blemished and he becomes unclean ‘and no unclean thing can enter into the Father’s kingdom.’
    For the man alone, his repentance and his forsaking of sin is the best that he can do. However all his good works cannot erase the blemish, even if he never sinned again. The reason this is insufficient is because he is still guilty of sin and justice requires her due, for there to be a law there must be a just punishment, otherwise there is no law and no justice.

    God has provided a way to satisfy justice, but how is it done?

    Isaiah 1:
    18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    It is like a man who has a debt, and when the debt comes due he cannot pay, he can ask the creditor for mercy, to forgive the debt. However were mercy given it would rob justice, for the debt would remain unpaid, and the creditor would not be satisfied, there would be no justice.
    The only way justice and mercy could both be satisfied is by a third party, a mediator, one who had the means and who would pay the debt for the debtor, then justice is satisfied, he that was owed would have his due, and have no reason for complaint. The debtor could receive mercy upon the conditions set by he who extended it.

    When likening this to the atonement; the debt represents the demands of justice in consequence of our sins; we are the debtors, the third party is one without sin, the Messiah, Christ Jesus, who because of love for all mankind would with his suffering pay our debt, See Isaiah 53 where the Messiah’s humiliation and sufferings is set forth—He makes his soul an offering for sin and makes intercession for transgressors, he suffered in our place, on the condition that we would repent and enter into a covenant to live in obedience to the laws of the Father.

    1 Timothy 2;
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 19;
    16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
    17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
    18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
    19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

    Thus it is written by Paul;
    8 For by grace (which is love) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Thus to enter into the kingdom of Heaven it will only be possible upon the merits of Christ and his atonement. This is what the Apostle Peter testified;
    Acts 4:
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    These are Christ’s words to a branch of the house of Israel whom he visited following his resurrection: This is the covenant;

    ‘The Book of Mormon’;
    3 Nephi 27;
    16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
    17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
    18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
    19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
    20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

    It can be seen from this that both works and the grace of a mediator, are required. As necessary as our works are, our repentance and our faithfulness in obeying all the commandments, it takes more to satisfy justice, that we may without blemish, enter the fathers kingdom.

    The gospel of Christ and salvation is offered free to all men, regardless of their lineage or geographical location, upon the above conditions. This is the covenant God has made with his children, from Adam to Abraham, Moses to John the Baptist, and Christ in the dispensation of the meridian of time, to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the dispensation of the fullness of times.
    This is a link to the Book of Mormon, it is a true book, it is of great worth to all men, it testifies of Christ:
    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

  18. Posted May 22, 2008 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Unfortunately, none of us are brothers. We are born children of the devil, and must be adopted into God’s family, and then we become brothers (John 1:12-13). It is my sincere hope that you will become my brother, and we can spend eternity together. Needless to say, if you remain a child of the devil, you will give an account for your sins, and you will be punished in hell, which is exactly what we all deserve.

    While we are judged by our actions, our adoption into God’s family is purely a gift. Those who become God’s children will produce good works, just as a good apple tree produces apples. The tree isn’t an apple tree because it produces apples. It produces apples because it’s an apple tree.

    The similarities between Islam and Mormonism are astounding to me. I put a list on my blog some time ago. You can take a look at it here: http://billphillips.wordpress.com/?s=is+moroni+baloney

    Thanks,
    Bill

  19. Mohamed
    Posted May 23, 2008 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Hello everybody ,

    I would like to add that according to the christians belief, they say ” jesus is God and God died for peoples’sins”
    Well, that is just plain impossible, because if God died some 2,000 years ago then who is sustaining this universe, who is still creating man, animal, trees and so on…
    God is One and God is the Creator, and the universe is like a ball in His Hand, if He dies the ball will fall, there is no life without God.
    Besides God doesn’t have to die for peoples’ sins, He Can just Forgive the people because He doesn’t have to get approval from anybody about what He Can Do.

  20. Posted May 23, 2008 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    Bill
    SAID
    Sufi786,

    Clearly you’ve limited your god to not being able to enter into his own creation. Maybe he’s not powerful enough, or just can’t figure out how.

    Keep trying, and maybe you’ll please him enough to get him to forgive your sins. Do you guys have any tips for getting human judges to pervert justice? The idea of serving a god whose sense of justice isn’t even up to human standards seems strange to me. Maybe you see where I’m coming from.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    MY REPLY:

    Hi Bill

    Please do not degrade the fair name of the Lord by saying he is going to become even an ANIMAL for us ???

    Dont you think Christians and other Pagans are thinking too High of themselves ??? when they insist that God can even become an ANIMAL

    like us ??? eating drinking , sleeping ?? going to answer the natures call ???

    Please Bill I am not the one who is degrading God but Christians and Pagans are degrading God here , please open your hearts and minds and see the facts !!!

  21. Posted May 23, 2008 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    Bill
    SAID TO MARK PARKER
    Mark,

    Unfortunately, none of us are brothers. We are born children of the devil, and must be adopted into God’s family, and then we become brothers (John 1:12-13). It is my sincere hope that you will become my brother, and we can spend eternity together. Needless to say, if you remain a child of the devil, you will give an account for your sins, and you will be punished in hell, which is exactly what we all deserve.

    While we are judged by our actions, our adoption into God’s family is purely a gift. Those who become God’s children will produce good works, just as a good apple tree produces apples. The tree isn’t an apple tree because it produces apples. It produces apples because it’s an apple tree.

    The similarities between Islam and Mormonism are astounding to me. I put a list on my blog some time ago. You can take a look at it here: http://billphillips.wordpress.com/?s=is+moroni+baloney

    Thanks,
    Bill

    MY REPLY :

    Bill you are telling us that God is evil ? to make us sinners even before we sin ? just for the the sin of Adam and Eve ?

    I don’t know what to say of this verse

    We are born children of the devil, and must be adopted into God’s family, and then we become brothers (John 1:12-13)

    WE ARE BORN CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL ? EXCUSE ME WE ARE BORN THE CHILDREN OF HUMANS !!!!

    If such is the Scripture you want to believe then All I can say is that you have have lost to the Devil even before you can have some Faith in God , leave alone building a strong foundation of faith on such hopeless believe !!!

  22. Posted May 23, 2008 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Mohamad,

    It’s clear that you don’t understand what Christians believe. We believe in the Trinity, and that Jesus was fully God and fully man. Furthermore, Jesus rose from the dead, which is the proof that Christianity and the Bible are true. If you can disprove that, Christianity will cease to exist.

    You said, “Besides God doesn’t have to die for peoples’ sins, He Can just Forgive the people because He doesn’t have to get approval from anybody about what He Can Do.”

    That statement disproves Islam, and makes Allah out to be a wicked, evil, corrupt judge. We’ve all sinned against God, and since God is infinitely holy, our penalty is infinite. If God forgave sins because He felt like it, that is a wicked judge. Wouldn’t you be angry if one of your loved ones were raped and murdered, and the judge forgave the murderer? That is exactly what you’re asking God to do in your case.

    Sufi786,

    Whether you want to believe we are born wicked or not, we are wicked now. No one has to teach children how to break God’s holy law. We are naturally born liars and disobedient to our parents. That is what makes Islam just like every other religion on earth (except Christianity). Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and Catholics all say that we can make up for our sins by doing good deeds. Can a guilty criminal make up for his crimes by doing good deeds? I say criminals must be punished.

    You all have been unable to respond to my accusation that Allah (and the god of every other wicked religion) is not just. You need to think long and hard about justice, and how you’ve sinned against the infinitely holy Creator, and about what you will receive if you get what you deserve. I assure you you will get what you deserve as I’m certain that God is infinitely just.

    Thanks for the conversation.

    Bill

  23. Mohamed
    Posted May 24, 2008 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Hello everybody ,

    I would like to make something clear if i may :

    In Islam there are 2 types of sins : Major sins and Minor sins.

    -Major sins are for example : murdering, raping, drinking alcohol, having sex with someone other than spouse, negative gossiping , not praying as mandated, not giving charity if you are able, not fasting the month of Ramadan if you are able, racism, gambling for money, stealing, major lies that affect others negatively,…
    -Minor sins are for example : minor lies to show a better self, watching explicit images or videos, bad habits like smoking and masturbation, spying on others (like neighbors) etc…

    Now in Islam GOD can forgive all your sins major or minor as long as they do not involve anybody else getting hurt by them, like drinking alcohol as long as you don’t hurt anybody, not praying, not fasting, having mutual sex with other than spouse as long as it’s not rape…GOD will forgive all these sins that are between you and HIM as long as you repent truly, regret what you have done and promise GOD not to do these sins anymore and act on it.
    But, if the sins you committed major or minor involve someone else getting hurt then GOD will not forgive you even if you repent until that person you hurt forgives you.

    So if you stole from someone, and then you felt guilty and you repent your sin to GOD, you still have to face that person you stole from and tell him or her what you did and ask for forgiveness, if that person forgives you then you are free of that sin, if he or she does not forgive you then that sin stays with you.

    now if you kill someone, and then you felt guilty and you repent your sin to GOD, you still have to face that person you killed and ask him or her for forgiveness, but in this case that person is dead and you can’t talk to him or her in this life, here your sin will stay with you until the day of judgement, and GOD will bring you both and have you ask that person you killed for forgiveness, if this person forgives you giving the fact that you have repent your sin to GOD already in this life then you are free of sin, but if that person does not forgive you then you will be punished for killing him or her no matter what.

    This is the justice of GOD, no one will go unpaid.

  24. Mohamed
    Posted May 24, 2008 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Hello everybody ,

    I forgot to add to my comment the following :

    There is indeed One Major Sin that GOD will never forgive, and that is “The Wrong Belief”.
    If you worship someone other than GOD or If you associate anybody else with GOD in worshiping and you die in this state, then no matter how good of a person you were in your life, everything will go down the drain.

  25. Mark Parker
    Posted May 25, 2008 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Mohamed,
    That is an interesting list of what is considered sin, it really amazes me also what Islam has in common with my Faith. Though I would think ‘Wrong belief’ cannot always be accounted to the individual wrong believer because there are other circumstances in play over which they have no control, such as living in a time of great apostasy when those who should have preserved the true faith in its purity have utterly corrupted it, also at various times and places like the above, state religions have been enforced to the point of extermination of those who by conscience would choose a different path. How could God send a Prophet to Europe in the dark ages of the great apostasy, where would the true faith hide from being condemned as heretics and exterminated? There are also countries still who do not allow their citizens the freedom to have missionaries of different faiths offer to share their message with them, and then those who would accept the truth if only they knew where to find it.
    Bill put in a link that lists the similarities between Islam and the Mormon Church, the correct name of which is ‘The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.’ Would it be ok to post the list up here Bill? We could add to the list, abstinence from alcohol, tobacco, pornography, and a regular fast (if able).
    However your list is not completely accurate in parts, like we obviously believe in the necessity of the atonement, a re-reading of my above post should clarify that. Joseph Smith didn’t claim to be the final Prophet, we have Prophets and Apostles to-day, it‘s rather the final dispensation of the gospel before the coming of the Lord. Also we very much believe the Bible to be the word of God, with the provision that its translated properly, our official English language bible is the King James version, so that is what I quote from. The Book of Mormon is a second witness of Jesus Christ, which confirms the Bible teachings and goes hand in hand with that book; it is specifically for our day. It’s coming forth is foretold in both Old and New Testaments, it is a record of a branch of the house of Israel of the tribe of Joseph who were separated 600 years BC, its history continues to around 400AD, which includes the record of the resurrected Christ’s teaching to these remote people who are the other sheep of whom Christ stated;

    ‘16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.’

    As is pointed out in other threads Christ was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, his chosen people, they were chosen to be a blessing to all the families of the earth according to the promise given to Abraham, they who were faithful were chosen to take the gospel of Jesus Christ to every creature, that all mankind may have access to its blessings and be counted as fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God heirs to the Kingdom.

  26. Mark Parker
    Posted May 25, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Sorry missed this section:
    The prophesies; note how specific it is; when it will come forth, and we can see the book from Judah is what we know as the Bible, but where is the other book that will be joined to it from the hand of Ephraim if its not the Book of Mormon?
    Ezekiel 37;
    15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
    16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
    17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
    18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
    19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
    20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

    Another from the New Testament: If you look at this in context it can be seen that this will take place just prior to the Lords return.

    Revelation 14;
    6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Where is the fulfillment of this prophesy if it is not with the angel Moroni and the Book of Mormon?


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