“O” CHRISTIANS PAGANS ANSWER THY GOD – A MUST READ, A MUST SEE AND THOUGHT PROVOKING!!!

 

 

 

“O” CHRISTIANS PAGANS ANSWER THY GOD – A MUST

READ,

A MUST SEE AND THOUGHT PROVOKING!!!

 

 

 

I am the LORD:

 

that is my name:

 

and my glory will I

 

not give to

 

another, neither

 

my praise to

 

graven images

 

Isaiah 42 : 8

 

 

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58242.jpg

 

christ_redeemer.jpeghavana-jesus-closeup.jpg

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Ten Commandments Exodus 20 1: 7 KJV

20:1 And God spake all these

words, saying,

20:2 I am the LORD thy God,

which have brought thee out of the

land of Egypt, out of the house of

bondage.

 

 

20:3 Thou shalt have no other

gods before me.

20:4 Thou shalt

not make unto thee any graven image, or any

likeness of any thing that is in

heaven above, or that is in the

earth

beneath, or that is in the water

under the earth:

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down

thyself to them, nor serve them:

for I the LORD thy God am a

jealous

God, visiting the iniquity of

 

the fathers upon the children unto

the third and fourth generation of

them that hate me;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto

 

thousands of them that love me,

and keep my commandments.

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name

of the LORD thy God in vain; for

the LORD will not hold him

guiltless that taketh his name in vain

 

 

“O” Pagan

Christians answer thy God

now????

 

 

I invite you to the True Monotheist Religion

of  Prophet Abraham (p)  that is Islam

And ask you ?

 

( Abraham (p) said ) Isn’t it strange

that you should worship these idols

which can neither speak nor do

anything.

They can neither help nor

harm anyone. Shame on you and on

your idol worship. How foolish of you

to worship them.

HOLY QURAN [21:60]

 

 

 

I CHALLENGE EACH AND EVERY CHRISTIAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH TO PROVE ME WRONG AND PROVE JESUS IS GOD!!!

AND JUSTIFY WHAT RIGHT THEY HAVE TO

MAKE IDOLS OF JESUS AND WORSHIP HIM!?

WHO GAVE THE CHRISTIANS THE AUTHORITY

TO MAKE AND WORSHIP IDOLS OR GRAVEN IMAGES OF JESUS!!!???

I SWEAR BY GOD THEY CAN NEVER PROVE JESUS TO BE GOD!!!

AND THEY CAN NEVER EVER JUSTIFY THEIR PAGAN DEEDS!!!

THEN THEY MUST ACCEPT THE QURAN AND ISLAM – LEAVING THE CHRISTIAN CORRUPT FAITH AND PAGANISM!!!

OTHERWISE THEY CAN FOLLOW WHAT EVER THEY WANT BLINDLY THAT IS THEIR OWN UNFORTUNATE CHOICE!!!

 

 

 

 

Holy Quran Surah 112.

The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

MAY ALLAH THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM(p), MOSES(P) , JESUS(p) AND MUHAMMAD(S) GUIDE YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH

“And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: ‘Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?’ He will say: ‘Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: ‘Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things’”

HOLY QURAN(5:116-117).

“Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!”

HOLY QURAN (5:75).

Courtesy

Dr Syed Abdul Raheem

Sufi786

Author

The Only true Religion Debate

https://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/

 

 

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14 Comments

  1. Posted April 4, 2008 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    it is right to say not to make any graven images and not to worship them, but if you believe this writing straight out the Torah, the true word of God, then why do you think islam is the true religion? Read the rest of the Torah and see for yourself if Yeshua fulfilled it! He certainly did! Moses said that there would come another prophet like him, and if you read the prophets and the new testament you will see that Yeshua is this prophet! Christianity certainly has gone in a strange direction, but Yeshua is the messiah and true believers worship Him and not idols.

  2. Mark Parker
    Posted April 24, 2008 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Hi sufi,
    I’ll try to answer your question, I’ll use the scriptures, and I’ll try to be concise. You have asked 2 questions; one about ‘is Christ God?’ and the other about Idol worship, I’ll just deal with the first.
    So there is no confusion I’ll state plainly that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals. Before and after mortality Christ tells plainly who he is, during his earthly ministry, it’s predominantly what he does that bears testimony to who he is.
    These are the words of Christ recorded in ‘The Book of Mormon’ to a branch of the house of Israel following his resurrection, what he says you will likely find different to what you may expect, but it’s very consistent with what is in the Old and New testaments.
    It’s also very consistent with the testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith when he spoke face to face with both God the Father and Jesus Christ, in more modern times.

    Book of Mormon
    3 Nephi 11
    5 And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came.
    6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:
    7 Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.
    8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.
    9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:
    10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
    11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.
    12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude fell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied among them that Christ should show himself unto them after his ascension into heaven.
    13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:
    14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

    In the last verse Christ refers to his wounds as an indication, that he Christ is the God of Israel, why would he say that? He’s not saying he is God the Father; as he speaks of doing his will in verse 11, he also constantly teaches that we should pray to God the father in his name.
    Will the Bible, Old and New Testament back up his statement that he Christ is the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth?

    Genesis 3
    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of cus, to know good and eevil: etc.

    What is meant by ‘the man has become as one of us?’ who is ‘us’?
    The Apostle John describes Christ;
    John 1:1‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.’
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    ‘14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.’
    What did Jesus believe in regard to his pre-earth existence?
    Just prior to his crucifiction and death Christ included this in a prayer:
    John 17:5 ‘And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.’
    John testifies of Christ after his ressurection and assention into Heaven, and he describes him in that glory the Father had granted him:
    Rev 1
    13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
    14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
    15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
    16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
    17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
    From the Old and New testaments we can see that at the time of creation God was not alone, he spoke to someone referring to ‘us’, and that Christ had a position of glory with God the father before the world was, and was, under the direction of the Father, the creator, he also would come into the world to bring about the atonement, that all mankind would live again, obtaining ‘the key of death’ or power to deliver from death, and that through obedience to the laws and ordinances of his gospel all who would truly follow him would be saved in the Kingdom of Heaven, ‘the key that releases from hell’.
    From the Old Testament;
    ‘the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
    So what did this God of Israel and God of the whole earth say he would do?
    Ezekiel 37:12
    ‘Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves’
    Hosea 13;14
    ‘I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction’
    This is the Apostles testimony regarding the fullfilment of this promise; found in the New Testament:
    ‘20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ‘
    ‘25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: ‘
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    This redemption from death, which was ransomed by Christ’s sacrifice, is a gift as universal as death itself, all will be raised from the grave to stand before God to be judged according to their works. Redemption from hell is conditional, and obtained by obediance to the laws and ordinances of the gospel of Christ.
    The Apostles testified of Christ being the God of Israel;
    Matthew 1
    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
    1 Corinthians 10:
    ‘1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.’
    ‘16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.’
    Christ upset many of the Jewish leaders, by his testimony of being the God of Israel, they saw it as blasphemy and wished to stone him, they neither understood the role of the Messiah, nor the nature of God. There are a few instances recorded in the New testament, these are some:
    The first deals with who has a rightful position to say to a man his sins are forgiven. Obviously that right belongs to God, the Jews knew this and Christ used it as an opportunity to show who he was:
    Matthew 9;
    2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
    3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
    4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
    5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
    6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
    7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

    John 8:

    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
    57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    (This could be translated; ‘Before Abraham was I Jehovah’ and to the Jews it was again blasphemy.)

    59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    Matthew 28;
    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    I’ll finish with this quote, it speaks of Christ as creator, of Christ being in the express image of God the father, (they look alike), of Christ’s atonement, (purging our sins, upon conditions of repentance) holding a place of honor on the right hand of the Father, such a place of honor that the Father would say ‘let all the angels of God worship him.’ Then finally, the Father calls Christ God.
    Hebrews 1:
    1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    This is what the prophets of the Old and New Testament testify, the Book of Mormon and modern Prophets the same. The Prophet Joseph Smith described God the Father and Jesus Christ:
    ‘When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved Son. Hear Him!’

    Sufi I know this testimony of Joseph Smith is true, also that Jesus Christ lives and restored his Church which is lead by modern Prophets and Apostles, there is a connection with heaven, that allows even someone like me, to be able to follow Joseph’s example and ask God, and know for myself what is true.

  3. Posted April 27, 2008 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Hi Mark Parker

    Tell me my friend how better are you than Pagans ? when you make God INTO FLESH , I mean you have to Admit Christianity is self contradictory and is not Consistent with Monotheism and belief in ONE UNSEEN ETERNAL GOD OF ABRAHAM !!!

    KJV 1 Timothy, Chapter 1:17
    017: Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    KJV 1 Timothy, Chapter 6:15 -16
    015: Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    016: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    According to Christians and Bible Jesus Christ DIED on the Cross and was dead for 3 days till he rose again or was resurrected from dead

    So Jesus Christ is NOT God and God is NOT JESUS , because God is Immortal and Eternal and NEVER EVER DIES, NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND !!!

    GOD CANNOT BE SEEN!!! BUT PEOPLE SAW JESUS – SO Jesus Christ is NOT God and God is NOT JESUS

    PEACE – AMEEEN – MAY GOD GUIDE YOU TO THE TRUTH !!!

  4. Mark Parker
    Posted May 1, 2008 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Hi Sufi,
    I’ll just put some scriptures here, you can tell me what you think;
    Certainly Paul spoke of the invisible God, however he also said this:

    Hebrews 11;
    27 By faith he (Moses) forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

    ‘As seeing him who is invisible’, Paul probably had in mind;

    Exodus 33;
    11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

    Does it say anywhere in the scriptures; God does not have a body? Paul says Christ is in the express image of the Father’s person;

    Hebrews 1;
    3 Who being the brightness of his (the Father’s)glory, and the express image of his person,
    Colossians:
    15 Who(referring to Christ) is the image of the invisible God,

    It’s pretty obvious that man was created in the image of God, and likewise we can deduce that God therefore has arms and legs, hands and feet, a face and hair, eyes and ears etc, an image, in the likeness of a man. And Christ looks very like him. Both have immortal physical bodies of flesh and bone, as testified to by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

    D&C 130
    22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

    Christ showed plainly the nature of his resurrected immortal body.

    Luke 24;
    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Sufi Said;
    1. ‘According to Christians and Bible Jesus Christ DIED on the Cross and was dead for 3 days till he rose again or was resurrected from dead.
    2. So Jesus Christ is NOT God and God is NOT JESUS , because God is Immortal and Eternal and NEVER EVER DIES, NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND !!!’

    Sufi this is from the Book of Mormon, this particular section is from about 124BC, These are the words of a righteous King, recounting to his people the words of an angel who had spoken to him;
    Mosiah 3;
    3 And he said unto me: Awake, and hear the words which I shall tell thee; for behold, I am come to declare unto you the glad tidings of great bjoy.
    4 For the Lord hath heard thy prayers, and hath judged of thy righteousness, and hath sent me to declare unto thee that thou mayest rejoice; and that thou mayest declare unto thy people, that they may also be filled with joy.
    5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.
    6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.
    7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.
    8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.
    9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.
    10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.

    The Book of Mormon is either true or false. I know only one sure way to know for oneself, and it takes an honest heart. This is a promise within the Book of Mormon;

    Moroni 10;

    3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

    Sufi will you test this by studying and pondering the words of the Book of Mormon and ask God in sincerity if they are true?
    I guess you may have difficulty with this request, but if it’s not true, as you probably think, you would get no answer from God and you would be justified, (provided you diligently and thoroughly investigated it complying exactly with the conditions set out by Moroni) thus being justified to reject it, and post the outcome here.
    If on the other hand God were to answer and testify to you of the books truth, wouldn’t that be a good outcome also.
    This is a good site you have put up here to discuss and determine; which is the true faith of the God of Abraham, surely the best and safest way to find that answer is to ask God.
    If you think, well why study the Book of Mormon and ask about that, the reason I would give are the remarkable claims that witnesses have made about its origins and translation. Four witnesses testified to having been shown, by an angel, the ancient metal plates from which the translation was done, and also of having heard the voice of God bearing record of the correctness of the translation and instructing them to bear witness of it to the world. A second group of eight witnesses were shown the ancient plates by the Prophet Joseph Smith; they inspected them closely and bore witness to the fact that Joseph had the plates.
    I can testify to you also that I know the Book of Mormon is true, and that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God, I know because I did as Moroni directs, I asked God, and I can in no way doubt because of the answer I received.

    This is a link to The Book of Mormon:

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

  5. Posted May 1, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    MARK PARKER SAID

    Hebrews 11;
    27 By faith he (Moses) forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

    ‘As seeing him who is invisible’, Paul probably had in mind;

    MY REPLY :

    Hi

    Mark Parker
    The above Passage of Hebrew is “AS SEEING ” Which clearly means not Actually seeing but as seeing !!! it is as simple as that !!!

  6. Posted May 1, 2008 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    MARK PARKER SAID

    Exodus 33;
    11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

    Does it say anywhere in the scriptures; God does not have a body? Paul says Christ is in the express image of the Father’s person;

    MY REPLY :

    Hi

    Mark Parker

    Yes God spoke to Moses face to face so does that mean Moses saw God — NO , all Moses saw was a Light and a Voice of God speaking to him Face to Face !!! it is as simple as that !!!

  7. Posted May 1, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    MARK PARKER SAID

    Hebrews 1;
    3 Who being the brightness of his (the Father’s)glory, and the express image of his person,
    Colossians:
    15 Who(referring to Christ) is the image of the invisible God,

    It’s pretty obvious that man was created in the image of God, and likewise we can deduce that God therefore has arms and legs, hands and feet, a face and hair, eyes and ears etc, an image, in the likeness of a man. And Christ looks very like him. Both have immortal physical bodies of flesh and bone, as testified to by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

    MY REPLY :

    Hi

    Mark Parker

    Image of His person ? is God a person ? is God a Man ?

    moreover the Image of God is NOT GOD HIMSELF , MY AND YOURS PHOTO OR IMAGE IS NOT ME OR YOU — it is as simple as that my friend !!! no confusions !!!

  8. Posted May 1, 2008 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    MARK PARKER SAID

    D&C 130
    22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

    Christ showed plainly the nature of his resurrected immortal body.

    Luke 24;
    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    MY REPLY :

    Sorry Mark Parker , Jesus is NOT GOD HIMSELF SO DON’T TRY TO APPLY THINGS WHICH JESUS SAID OR DID AS THE ATTRIBUTES OF GOD HIMSELF , JUST PROVE ME JESUS WHO WAS A MAN AND A MESSENGER IS GOD IS GOD HIMSELF ? IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH YOU CAN NEVER DO !!!

    GOD HAS NO BODY AND HE HAS NO FLESH

    KJV 1 Timothy, Chapter 6:15 -16
    015: Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    016: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    GOD DWELLS IN LIGHT AND IS NOT LIGHT ITSELF BUT SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THE LIGHT , LEAVE ALONE GOD HAVING FLESH AND A BODY AND A MOUTH TO FEED , AND A STOMACH TO DIGEST FOOD AND ORGANS TO HAVE WHAT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN ? , WHICH IS NOT WORTH EVEN MENTIONING FOR IT WOULD BE AN INSULT TO THE PURE GOD BY YOU AND ME !!!

    MY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US !!!

    Holy Quran Surah 112.

    The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

    1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    “Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!”

    HOLY QURAN (5:75).

  9. Posted May 1, 2008 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    MARK PARKER SAID

    Sufi Said;
    1. ‘According to Christians and Bible Jesus Christ DIED on the Cross and was dead for 3 days till he rose again or was resurrected from dead.
    2. So Jesus Christ is NOT God and God is NOT JESUS , because God is Immortal and Eternal and NEVER EVER DIES, NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND !!!’

    Sufi this is from the Book of Mormon, this particular section is from about 124BC, These are the words of a righteous King, recounting to his people the words of an angel who had spoken to him;
    Mosiah 3;
    3 And he said unto me: Awake, and hear the words which I shall tell thee; for behold, I am come to declare unto you the glad tidings of great bjoy.
    4 For the Lord hath heard thy prayers, and hath judged of thy righteousness, and hath sent me to declare unto thee that thou mayest rejoice; and that thou mayest declare unto thy people, that they may also be filled with joy.
    5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.
    6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.
    7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.
    8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.
    9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.
    10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.

    The Book of Mormon is either true or false. I know only one sure way to know for oneself, and it takes an honest heart. This is a promise within the Book of Mormon;

    Moroni 10;

    3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

    Sufi will you test this by studying and pondering the words of the Book of Mormon and ask God in sincerity if they are true?
    I guess you may have difficulty with this request, but if it’s not true, as you probably think, you would get no answer from God and you would be justified, (provided you diligently and thoroughly investigated it complying exactly with the conditions set out by Moroni) thus being justified to reject it, and post the outcome here.
    If on the other hand God were to answer and testify to you of the books truth, wouldn’t that be a good outcome also.
    This is a good site you have put up here to discuss and determine; which is the true faith of the God of Abraham, surely the best and safest way to find that answer is to ask God.
    If you think, well why study the Book of Mormon and ask about that, the reason I would give are the remarkable claims that witnesses have made about its origins and translation. Four witnesses testified to having been shown, by an angel, the ancient metal plates from which the translation was done, and also of having heard the voice of God bearing record of the correctness of the translation and instructing them to bear witness of it to the world. A second group of eight witnesses were shown the ancient plates by the Prophet Joseph Smith; they inspected them closely and bore witness to the fact that Joseph had the plates.
    I can testify to you also that I know the Book of Mormon is true, and that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God, I know because I did as Moroni directs, I asked God, and I can in no way doubt because of the answer I received.

    This is a link to The Book of Mormon:

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

    MY REPLY :

    I AM SORRY MARK PARKER MY FRIEND DON’T YOU SEE THE BOOK OF MORMANS IS CONTRADICTING ITSELF !!!???

    ON ONE SIDE IT SAYS GOD IS ETERNAL AND HENCE NEVER EVER DIES EVEN FOR A SECOND !!!

    Mosiah 3;

    5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

    ON OTHER HAND IT SAYS GOD CAN DIE ?

    7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

    I MEAN MARK PARKER WHY DON’T YOU READ THE LAST AND FINAL TESTAMENT OF GOD THE HOLY QURAN AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE QURAN REGARDING GOD OR ANYTHING FOR TRUE BOOK OF GOD IS CLEAR AND DOES NOT GIVE TWO OPPOSITE STATEMENTS OR CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS AT THE SAME TIME , NEITHER GOD DOES ANY MISTAKES AND NEITHER THE TRUE BOOK OF GOD HAS ANY MISTAKES OR ERRORS !!!

    I can understand what ever the Bible of Book of Mormons is trying to say , and I understand it without making Jesus a Man and a Messenger of God into GOD HIMSELF , I can understand the love God has for this World , that is why he send the Messengers or Prophets to this world in oder that people may love and obey God and Shun Evil and Satan .

    But I dont understand why you Mark Parker and other Christians insist on becoming Pagans ? by trying to make JUST ONCE EXCLUSIVE CLAIM THAT GOD BECAME FLESH AND BLOOD ONLY FOR ONCE AND NOT MAY TIMES ? THAT TO ONLY FOR THE FANTASY AND EVIL PLEASING OF CHRISTIANS WHO INSIST ON MAKING GOD A MAN AND MAN A GOD , IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALL THE PAGANS HAVE DONE ANYWAY ?

    I mean see the facts you cannot claim yourself to be following the true religion of Abraham and worshiping the Invisible ONE GOD ?

    When all the time you insist on making God a Man and Man a God , and Make Idols of Jesus so as to make God into an Idol and worship Him like PAGANS ? , Which God will never accept ?

    Remember the Commandants , Thou Shall not Have NO GOD BESIDE ME , THOU SHALL NOT MAKE ANY IMAGES IN THE LIKENESS OF SOMETHING IN HEAVENS OR EARTH AND BOW DOWN TO THEM AND WORSHIP THEM , HEAR O ISRAEL YOU LORD IS ONE GOD .

    1GOD= 1 GOD

    1 GOD + JESUS GOD = 2 GODS

    1 GOD FATHER + JESUS GOD SON + GOD HOLY SPIRIT = 3 GODS

    YOU HAVE TO GET DOWN TO BASICS

    IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ROCKET SCIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS ONE !!!

    SIMILARLY IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ROCKET SCIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ONCE YOU SAY SOMETHING ELSE IS ALSO A GOD THE THE UNITY OF GOD IS DIVIDED THEN YOU DON’T HAVE ONE GOD AS AN WHOLE BUT A GOD WITH DIFFERENT PARTS LIKE 3 gods? OR ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND gods like HINDUS ??? ALL PARTS OF GOD BUT NOT ONE PART A COMPLETE ONE GOD !!!!

    Holy Quran Surah 112.

    The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

    1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    IN THE END IF YOU TRULY LOVE AND FEAR GOD THEN READ AND FOLLOW HIS LAST AND FINAL UNCORRUPTED TESTAMENT THE HOLY QURAN !!!

  10. Mark Parker
    Posted May 4, 2008 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Hi Sufi
    ‘A lover of God by heart .
    A keen seeker of the Truth.’
    I know you believe strongly in your faith as I do in mine, your discription, I’ve quoted above, fits me as well as you.
    There is not a lot of difference between our religions, God requires of both obediance to those same ten commandments, and he requires us to live with integrity, we have much in common. All the same, you can see we get to an impass, where we debate how a scripture should be interpreted or exactly what some mean.
    I’ve tried to put the testimony of witnesses as evidence, and I think to myself if Sufi put himself in the possition of John the Apostle, or had that experiance himself, and saw Christ in his glory after being raised from death to die no more, stateing that he had all power both in heaven and upon earth, what would he then think? Do you believe John’s testimony? Or do you think it must be wrong?
    I believe John’s testimony. The whole Bible and all the Prophets testify of Christ, Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, is in similitude of God the Father’s sacrifice of his beloved son, as is the sacrifice, of the firstlings practiced from Adam down until Christ, when it was replaced by the sacrament in rememberance of that same event. The passover is also about the atonement of Christ where the blood of the Lamb of God would save. The Prophet Jonas about the ressurection. Yet still we are at an impass, and the question is how to solve it, or more to the point how would God have us know the truth, it’s important to him that an honest seeker of truth may find it and be lead into all truth.

    Sufi, that is why I asked you a question that you didn’t yet answer; will you read and ponder the words of the Book of Mormon even‘applying a great amount of critical reflection and study’ as you said you did with; Islam,
    Christianity , Hinduism , Judaism, Buddhism etc
    and then ask God the Father in the name of Christ if it’s true? Is there a more reliable source than God for truth?
    If you fear that reading the Book of Mormon may start to persuade you away from Islam, do not fear, and do not be the least persuaded and do not believe it, not unless God manifests the truth of it to you, in a way you cannot possibly doubt, in answer to your prayer.
    Will a keen seeker of truth try this experiment? I did, it frightened me but gave me great joy and a witness I cannot dispute. I am not asking you to believe me, but believe the scriptures; that God will answer, ‘let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.’ James 1.
    It’s just a little study. If it’s not true there would be no answer, on the other hand if it is true a loving Father in Heaven, the God of Abraham, whom you seek to serve will answer you.

    You say the Christian scriptures are contradictory, I’ll use the following as an example as you mention it elsewhere:

    Christ cannot be God because God cannot be tempted and Christ was tempted. This seeming contradiction is not actually contradiction, it just needs a little understanding of what is meant.

    Hebrews 4:
    15 Christ was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    So in reality Christ could not be tempted to sin.
    Israel is even commanded not to tempt the Lord their God, by not diligently obeying the commandments. So depending on how the word is used its meaning can vary a little. But as God has perfect moral character, he does not sin, and cannot be tempted to do so, as with Christ who was obedient in all things.

    Psalms 82;
    1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    There is what Christianity calls ‘the Godhead’ comprising the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Three separate and distinct individuals, one in purpose, but to us, it is to the Father we pray, because he is at the head, and to be reverenced above all as our Father, Christ calls him his Father and our Father, and he stands at the head.

    1 Corinthians 8;
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

  11. Mark Parker
    Posted May 4, 2008 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry Sufi I had forgotten to include this important testimony;
    Isaiah 9:
    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    Who would this child the Prophet Isaiah fortells be?
    He is the Messiah, or Christ Jesus, he is the only child born to ‘dwell in a tabernacle of clay’ as the Book of Mormon expresses it, to fit this description.
    Surely it’s not possible to believe in the Prophets whom God has sent without believing their testimony, and they testify of Christ, both in the Old and New testaments and in the Book of Mormon which was brought forth for our day, for this purpose;

    ‘Which is to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations.’

  12. Mark Parker
    Posted May 11, 2008 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    Hi Sufi,
    There is an aspect to this question that needs to be considered and understand:
    What exactly is the atonement of Christ and why was it necessary?

    What I read from those who practice Islam, is the belief that individuals are accountable and need to repent of their sins and forsake them, continually striving to live by all the commandments of God, having charity, good works and integrity. This is a true and correct principal and it is also a principal in common with true Christianity. The Christian scriptures stating that all mankind will be judged according to their works, weather they be good or evil:

    Revelation 20:
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    Christ taught that not all who called him Lord would be saved, why?

    Matthew 7:
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    The will of the Father is that mankind should keep all of his commandments and have love one for another.

    Mankind is not justified according to what they believe, but according to their works.
    Abraham was justified by his works, yet ‘Devils believe and tremble’ because their works follow them and condemn them, and they are not justified before God.

    James;
    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    However if a man sins his moral character is blemished and he becomes unclean ‘and no unclean thing can enter into the Father’s kingdom.’
    For the man alone, his repentance and his forsaking of sin is the best that he can do. However all his good works cannot erase the blemish, even if he never sinned again. The reason this is insufficient is because he is still guilty of sin and justice requires her due, for there to be a law there must be a just punishment, otherwise there is no law and no justice.

    God has provided a way to satisfy justice, but how is it done?

    Isaiah 1:
    18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    It is like a man who has a debt, and when the debt comes due he cannot pay, he can ask the creditor for mercy, to forgive the debt. However were mercy given it would rob justice, for the debt would remain unpaid, and the creditor would not be satisfied, there would not be justice.
    The only way justice and mercy could both be satisfied is by a third party, a mediator, one who had the means and who would pay the debt for the debtor, then justice is satisfied, he that was owed would have his due, and have no reason for complaint. The debtor could receive mercy upon the conditions set by he who extended it.

    When likening this to the atonement; the debt represents the demands of justice in consequence of our sins; we are the debtors, the third party is one without sin, the Messiah, Christ Jesus, who because of love for all mankind would with his suffering pay our debt, See Isaiah 53 where the Messiah’s humiliation and sufferings is set forth—He makes his soul an offering for sin and makes intercession for transgressors, he suffered in our place, on the condition that we would repent and enter into a covenant to live in obedience to the laws of the Father.

    1 Timothy 2;
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 19;
    16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
    17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
    18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
    19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

    Thus it is written by Paul;
    8 For by grace (which is love) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Thus to enter into the kingdom of Heaven it will only be possible upon the merits of Christ and his atonement. This is what the Apostle Peter testified to;
    Acts 4:
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    These are Christ’s words to a branch of the house of Israel whom he visited following his resurrection: This is the covenant;

    ‘The Book of Mormon’;
    3 Nephi 27;
    16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
    17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
    18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
    19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
    20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

    It can be seen from this that both works and the grace of a mediator, are required. As necessary as our works are, our repentance and our faithfulness in obeying all the commandments, it takes more to satisfy justice, that we may without blemish, enter the fathers kingdom.

    The gospel of Christ and salvation is offered free to all men, regardless of their lineage or geographical location, upon the above conditions. This is the covenant God has made with his children, from Adam to Abraham, Moses to John the Baptist, and Christ in the dispensation of the meridian of time, to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the dispensation of the fullness of times.

  13. Posted May 12, 2008 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Very interesting conference on How the west “paganised” Christianity.

  14. Posted May 12, 2008 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Very interesting conference on How the west “paganised” Christianity.

    http://passionjesus.wordpress.com/


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