LYING IN THE NAME OF FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

LYING IN THE NAME OF FATHER THE SON AND

THE HOLY SPIRIT

DO SOME DISHONEST CHRISTIANS THINK THY CAN

FOOL GOD ?

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law

of

theLORD iswith us’? But, behold, the false

pen of

the scribeshas made it into a lie. (From the

RSV

Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)” 

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: “This is from God,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. HOLY QURN (Al-Baqarah 2:79)

 

{It was We(God) who revealed the law [to Moses]: therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed [as in Islam] to God’s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God’s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by [the light of] what God hath revealed, they are [no better than] unbelievers.}HOLY QURAN (Al-Ma’idah 5:44)

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10 Comments

  1. Posted May 30, 2008 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    If you write something in large colorful font, people are sure to believe your view!

  2. Posted May 30, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Everythingafter
    SAID

    If you write something in large colorful font, people are sure to believe your view!

    MY REPLY :

    IF I WRITE TRUTH PEOPLE ARE SURE TO BELIEVE , THE FONT SIZE IS FOR LIARS TO PONDER – THANKS FOR DROPPING BY- HAVE A NICE DAY !!!

  3. Mark Parker
    Posted June 1, 2008 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Sufi,
    the quotes you have from the Quran seem to me very correct, they speak of principals a true Christian or anyone interested in truth would agree with.
    It’s interesting to me that it says; ‘It was We(God) who revealed the law [to Moses]..’ because ‘We’ is plural, just like when God speaks about ‘US’; ‘the man has become as one of us’ in the old testament, indicating more persons than one, under the title of God; who were involved, its illogical to believe otherwise, you could ask a child how many people does ‘US’ and ‘WE’ refere to, and they would truthfully answer; two or more; and if questioned they would add; one is definitely wrong.
    The other verse from Jeremiah 8:8 you are missinterpreting and pretending it means the Bible is unreliable. So you can say if the Bible doesn’t agree with our doctrine it is because it has been grossly altered by dishonest scribes and is unreliable. Scholarship of the bible and it’s history would strongly dissagree
    with that false view. This is an interesting article on that exact subject:
    http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/reliabletext.html

  4. Mark N Parker
    Posted June 1, 2008 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Sufi,
    The quotes from the Quran above and the principals referred to would be very acceptable to a true Christian and indeed to any seeker of truth.
    I find it interesting that it says ‘We’; ‘It was We (God) who revealed the law [to Moses]’…. because ‘we’ is plural, just like ‘us’ is plural as in ‘the man is become as one of us’ in Genesis 3; 22 and ‘our’ as in ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:’ referring to two or more persons under the title of God. It is irrational to suppose ‘We’ ‘us’ and ‘our’ do not referee to at least two or more persons, if you asked a child how many people in ‘us’, ‘we’ or ‘our’ they would answer; two or more, definitely not one.
    You are misinterpreting Jeremiah 8:8, the Scribes in this verse represent the learned who think they are wise and who reject the council of God. You pretend that it’s saying that the Bible is unreliable, that it’s been grossly corrupted at some stage because it does not agree with part of your doctrine.
    The Bible is a reliable and accurate book, it is the word of God, his spirit testifies of it, also Bible scholarship and history supports it’s accuracy, this is an interesting article on the subject which shows plainly the veracity of the Old and New testaments;
    http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/reliabletext.html

  5. Mark Parker
    Posted June 1, 2008 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Sufi,
    The quotes from the Quran above and the principals referred to would be very acceptable to a true Christian and indeed to any seeker of truth.
    I find it interesting that it says ‘We’; ‘It was We (God) who revealed the law [to Moses]’…. because ‘we’ is plural, just like ‘us’ is plural as in ‘the man is become as one of us’ in Genesis 3; 22 and ‘our’ as in ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:’ referring to two or more persons under the title of God. It is irrational to suppose ‘We’ ‘us’ and ‘our’ do not referee to at least two or more persons, if you asked a child how many people in ‘us’, ‘we’ or ‘our’ they would answer; two or more, definitely not one.
    You are misinterpreting Jeremiah 8:8, the Scribes in this verse represent the learned who think they are wise and who reject the council of God. You pretend that it’s saying that the Bible is unreliable, that it’s been grossly corrupted at some stage because it does not agree with part of your doctrine.

  6. ChMan
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    We does not always mean a number of people.

    Check your dictionary, and check this too http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/we

    so u didn’t prove sufi wrong… 🙂

  7. ChMan
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Mark…

    “We” does not always mean a number of people.

    Check your dictionary, and check this too http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/we

    so u didn’t prove sufi wrong…

  8. Mark Parker
    Posted June 22, 2008 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    ChMan,
    Thanks for your input, I looked it up an yes it seems Kings and Queens and such sometimes use the term ‘we’ in a singular sense instead of saying I. That is interesting, and it has had me wondering half the day why they do that. Maybe it’s because a king is a king because of his linage and it’s a reference to his royal line, or that its him and his authority?
    However I wasn’t trying to prove Sufi wrong particularly, only in the miss-interpreting of Jeremiah 8:8 that suggests the Bible is severely corrupted, which for good reason I do not believe, and took opportunity to present a case.
    This is a good forum that invites comment and sharing of belief between members of different faiths, which helps us understand each other better. I see a lot of good in Islam, and seeing that quote with ‘we’ I thought to compare it with the plurality that exists in Genesis 1.
     26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    I know that Muhammad taught of one true God.
    Paul also taught of one true God;
    1 Corinthians 8;
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    To me these two do not contradict.
    Muhammad I think, from reading a quote Sufi put up, said more or less the ‘Trinity’ idea was not correct. And that is quite true, Paul never taught it and it’s not Biblical.
    The Bible however does teach about the Godhead, about priesthood and priesthood ordinances that are essential to salvation, also about how and upon what grounds the dead will be raised and how it is that a man or woman by repenting of all their sins can gain forgiveness.
    I would be interested to know from those that follow Islam if Muhammad taught about priesthood and priesthood ordinances such as baptism.
    It seems to me from the perspective of being a member of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, (Mormon) that by 590ad the Christian church was already in apostasy and corrupted, and so a priesthood with power to bind on earth and in heaven no longer existed with it.
    And that that authority would need to be restored from heaven.
    If God raised up Muhammad to call a nation to repentance and gave him a simple message to set individuals on a strait course toward God, that may have been all God required, that they repent of their sins and be forgiven, being justified before God because of their righteous works and diligent adherence to his commandments. With true Christianity the exact same is required, plus ordinances and covenants which pertain to having priesthood.
    In the Christian scriptures the subject of Christ being referred to as God is something that gives us a better understanding of the nature of God and also of man’s divine potential and preexistence. Christ is important to us, God the father has given to him authority and work, and this began before the foundation of the earth. It is so imbedded into the Bible from the testimony of the prophets that it’s not possible for any scribes to have added it later. The Book of Mormon confirms the Bible teaching about God and about Christ, and because of the strong testimony of witnesses to the divine origins of the Book of Mormon it stands as a strong witness.

  9. ChMan
    Posted August 1, 2008 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    Mark,

    Thanks for ur nice reply. i wasn’t actually into the subject that was going on between u, and it was my first time i see this page.

    However, in what’s related to God, creation, religion..etc

    In Islam, the existence of God can be proven by logic (not emotions). but it could take time from me like a month to explain it.

    Let’s leave this for now, but i’d like to have SIMPLE SOLID answers about the following:

    i would like to understand these things about the christian people and their beliefs.
    1. If There is a God, that is different from Jesus and that this God is called the Father, does the word “father” here mean that there has been any kind of giving birth?
    if so, then this confirms that God gives birth. If God Gives Birth, Can we prove it Logically, Scientifically?

    2. a. Why there are many versions, copies of the Bible.
    b. Why are those copies different. Why also some parts have different meaning.

    3. How can you be sure as a logical man, that the writing of the bible has been actually done by Jesus, if:
    a. Many copies are there? !
    b. Words have been changed?
    c. Meanings of different parts have been changed?

    4. If there is a book that has been changed a number of times, how can you be sure AS OF 100% that it is correct? specially when,
    the Objects (creatures) that changed it, ARE PEOPLE like you. who CAN make a mistake or Error. like you or me.

    5. If God can do anything, would he be able to secure his books?
    (in islam this is true). and you can get any copy from any islamic place and check it letter by letter.

    6. Voilent paragraphs are in different copies of the bible, do you think Jesus would ever say something like (the meaning) “kill all the men, women and children, behead them and burn before me” or something Like that. i can bring you the numbers, names, and version of bible this text was written in, and changed to less violent meanings in every modern copy.

    would you ever think Jesus tells his people to Kill?

    By saying “well i don’t follow that version” would only mean that, another man follows that version (logic). each one defends his beliefs, who’s right, you or him? and what’s the correct version?

    6. If Jesus is the son of God, can u prove it without referencing the bible that you have?

    7. Christians believe that Jesus has been crucified by Jews.
    In islam, it is written that Jesus has not been killed because God (the only one according to islam) too him away where he is still alive till now.
    8. in Islam, Jesus, Mouses, Mohammed, Abraham, Noah, Younis…etc are ALL JUST HUMANS but have been given some powers so to ease it for them to get people to believing in them and guide them. (coz people always need a hard proof).
    Jesus special gift was making dead man->alive man.
    Mouses one was talking to God as in (hearing a voice OR having words automatically get into his brain directly from God) i.e. God isn’t someone like you with a voice or hands to talk to him.
    It doesn’t have to be that God is an Object with a shape.
    Mohammed’s gift was Quran. that no one can write something like it.
    Now if u bring the best people in the English language, do u think they could write something like a paragraph in the bible? i think they can.
    but it has been proved that no one can write anything like any short sentence in quran. and u can try.

    by the way i’m only talking logic in here, i’m not religious. but i can have both books and i can easily pinpoint logic from non logic. and i COULD be wrong. So could u. (about everything).

    Cheers and have a nice day… sorry if i had any typing mistakes or errors

  10. Mark Parker
    Posted August 22, 2008 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Hi ChMan,
    thanks for your reply, I haven’t been back here for a while. Have you read some links I sent to Sufi? I’ll put a link below. I’m interested if Muhammad said something about the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, what he is called in the Bible, some times also called the spirit of truth, associated with Jesus Christ? I think Sufi put a quote from the Quran which spoke of a spirit comeing from or associated with Jesus. The reason I ask is that according to the Bible and Book of Mormon, the Holy Ghost is sent by God the Father, to testify of truth, and it is by this Holy Ghost that the Prophets speak God’s word. I have a witness from this Holy Ghost of Christ and his mission, also the Prophet Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon, it’s hard to describe exactly but it’s very tangible and comes especially at times of prayer and when reading the scriptures, this may sound strange to you but never the less it is my experience. When I was reading Sufi’s posts and discussing with him, and praying over what I should say, I had the thought that ‘I would like to meet Muhammad one day’, I was quite suprised when at that moment the Holy Ghost came, and I wondered why that should be, I also felt it would not be right in our discussions to speak against Muhammad. I then found some articles on what our own prophets and apostles have taught in regard to Muhammad. This is the link to Sufi’s post, with this;

    https://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/100-proof-jesus-is-not-god-a-must-see/#comment-977

    If you read about how my faith originated, and the circumstances under which we recieved the Book of Mormon you could see a likeness to Islam, and also a verification of the Bible record concerning Christ. If you are interested to see this it can be found here;
    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1

    ‘God the Father’, in the Bible he is called the Father of our spirits, the Father of us all. Christ teaches that we should pray to our Father in heaven, who is his father and our father, his God and our God.

    Scientific proof? Yes useing a scientific principal of testing, I’ll explain it later as it’s late and I must be up early.


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